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Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#71

Post by eshvk »

tptacek wrote: post #7

I have one semester of college, in which I took psychology and political science. I've worked as the lead network architect for a large ISP, as a developer and then lead developer of a network security tool, as a security researcher (I have a pretty decent cite record and a fun list of universities with courses that have taught papers I wrote), as a 2-time startup founder, the first of which was VC-funded, as a lead…

> Learn a systems programming language and a functional language

Not trying to start a language war or anything but would really appreciate learning what you (would have) started with especially on the functional side of things.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#72

Post by tptacek »

eshvk wrote: post #71
tptacek wrote: post #7

I have one semester of college, in which I took psychology and political science. I've worked as the lead network architect for a large ISP, as a developer and then lead developer of a network security tool, as a security researcher (I have a pretty decent cite record and a fun list of universities with courses that have taught papers I wrote), as a 2-time startup founder, the first of which was VC-funded, as a lead…

> Learn a systems programming language and a functional language Not trying to start a language war or anything but would really appreciate learning what you (would have) started with especially on the functional side of things.

C and Lisp.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#74

Post by okaram »

It is possible; however, it is a LOT easier with a CS degree (it is easier with a non-tech degree than without a degree at all :). Chances are a degree will also help later, when getting better jobs.

You will see many comments of people who've made it without a degree; they exist, but statistically it is much easier with one :)

If you can, get into a public university (at least if you're in the US or Mexico, where I have experience). It is usually affordable, and they provide a good education. It is usually easy to get a job in the field while in college.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#75

Post by tptacek »

selmnoo wrote: post #70
tptacek wrote: post #7

I have one semester of college, in which I took psychology and political science. I've worked as the lead network architect for a large ISP, as a developer and then lead developer of a network security tool, as a security researcher (I have a pretty decent cite record and a fun list of universities with courses that have taught papers I wrote), as a 2-time startup founder, the first of which was VC-funded, as a lead…

Awesome advice, thanks. > Math didn't matter much in my first 10 years or so, but it matters a lot to me now Can you please expand on what kind of math matters a lot to you and your work now? > I would pay a lot of money to be taught serious linear algebra and calculus instead of hacking and slashing my way through the subject on my own. Why not just take it at a univ. then?

My schedule isn't compatible with a university math class, which is what I think a lot of people who skip college are going to find out when they try to pick things back up. I can dedicate the requisite number of hours to a course, but not in the structure a course demands.

Regarding the importance of math to my career now: cryptanalysis, signal processing.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#76

Post by tptacek »

wspride wrote: post #52
tptacek wrote: post #7

I have one semester of college, in which I took psychology and political science. I've worked as the lead network architect for a large ISP, as a developer and then lead developer of a network security tool, as a security researcher (I have a pretty decent cite record and a fun list of universities with courses that have taught papers I wrote), as a 2-time startup founder, the first of which was VC-funded, as a lead…

"start building things from papers." Really liked what you wrote and found this particularly interesting. Can you elaborate on why you think this is important and how you generally go about it (finding papers, choosing what to code, etc)

There are rapidly diminishing returns for picking up new languages for the sake of having multiple languages.

There are accelerating returns for knowing one or two languages so well that you can build nearly anything in them.

There aren't diminishing returns for learning new concepts, new algorithms, new distributed systems protocols, new problem domains. You can keep implementing things from papers indefinitely and you will keep getting better and, potentially, more valuable.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#77

Post by freehunter »

asdasf wrote: post #63
freehunter wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helpdesk, desktop support/field service, and Geek Squad still exist. You tend not to see developers or architects doing that work for a living.

Wait, so people think "IT" means desktop support? Network architect is IT. Sysadmins, network admins, "devops" (remember when they were called sysadmins?) are all IT.

IT is about the technology. IS (information systems) is about the system as a whole, which includes the people. IT is focused on making technology work, IS is focused on using technology to improve a process.

IT is a part of IS, but IS is bigger than IT. If your job focuses on fixing technology (such as computer repair), you're working IT. If your job focuses on processes and people (such as software development, information security, business enablement, etc), you're working in IS.

For your website, the IT portion is the server it runs on. The IS portion is the IDE you use, your development environment, the server, your language/framework, the browser, your developers, and your customers. That's the information system as a whole that allows your website to work.

But yeah, when I hear "IT guy", I think desktop support. People in IS outside of support tends to refer to themselves as something more specific than general IT: I'm a programmer/developer/software engineer. I'm a network administrator. I'm a systems architect. I'm a security engineer. That's just my experience, and that's what I interpreted the comment "stay out of IT" to mean. Desktop support doesn't tend to have much room for growth compared to careers in IS.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#78

Post by freehunter »

benjohnson wrote: post #57
freehunter wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds to me like the difference between IT and IS. You're either "the IT guy" or you work in IS doing real things. Not just rebooting a managers PC and installing printer drivers.

I run an IT shop for small construction companies - and I'll cheerfully reboot PCs and install drivers. Frankly, it's fun: It's a good way to meet interesting people... and if I listen very carefully I'll find an unmet business need that I can help with a custom database or an app.

It sounds like you're more of a businessman than an IT guy. I used a job in IT to leverage my way into my current role of information security by listening to the needs of my company and offering my services doing way more than security work.

I don't think anyone would disagree that being able to find a need and sell yourself as the solution are two of the biggest assets in finding success.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to get a tech job without a degree?

#80

Post by thejteam »

tptacek wrote: post #7

I have one semester of college, in which I took psychology and political science. I've worked as the lead network architect for a large ISP, as a developer and then lead developer of a network security tool, as a security researcher (I have a pretty decent cite record and a fun list of universities with courses that have taught papers I wrote), as a 2-time startup founder, the first of which was VC-funded, as a lead…

Read and implement papers is extremely good advice. It also applies even if you have a degree. I have a BA in math but in the last 6 years have found myself in positions that usually require a phd. And that is not an option with a family and no university nearby. The ability to read academic papers and understand them and turn them into something useful is very valuable.

One thing I would add is to learn how to write, as tptacek obviously has. And like the reading material, not internet comments or blog posts. Learn to write real technical reports and proposals. Many engineers, in particular software people can't write worth a lick.

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