The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder • Hacker News Board

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#121

Post by Zarel » Sun, Dec 15, 2013, 7:24 PM UTC

Shinkei wrote: post #62

invalidOrTaken wrote: post #3

I don't know. I just don't know. I earned a perfect score on the SAT and was voted "Class Genius" in the yearbook, but barely graduated from high school. I was dismissed from university. I went to work for a machine learning company, where we (self included!) did some really neat stuff, including some heroic pre-sales-meeting coding that saved the day in a minor way. But I was fired six months in for low productivity…

This is an honest post, thanks for sharing. I am confused by something though. I have only (to my knowledge) known one person that got a perfect score on the SAT. The reason is that it requires both reasoning as well as 'stamp collecting'--(i.e. book knowledge). If you didn't bother to learn all the obscure vocabulary words used on the SAT that most high schoolers don't know--(extol, capricious, etc.)--then you must'…

I also got a 1600 in SAT Math and Reading. I took a few practice tests, but other than that I didn't specifically prepare for it. I did read books a lot in childhood, but I switched to spending most of my free time on the computer by late middle school and high school. I guess I still did a ton of reading on the computer, though, especially Wikipedia - Wikipedia was just taking off when I was in high school - I think most of my most knowledgeable friends also got their knowledge mostly from Wikipedia.

Part of my score did feel like I got lucky - I usually hit upon one or two words I didn't know in practice tests, but I knew all the words in the one I took officially.

As for your specific examples: "extol the virtues of" is an idiom that comes up a lot on the internet; "capricious" is less common, but I still remember reading it quite a few times.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#122

Post by yetanotherphd » Sun, Dec 15, 2013, 7:31 PM UTC

duaneb wrote: post #118

yetanotherphd wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Weak willed" was referring to the parents, not alleged sufferers of ADD. Did you read the whole post, or did you just scan for words you don't like? In context, "weak willed" referred to the fact that parents let themselves be convinced that their children had ADD when they should have known that they were being sold drugs that were merely performance enhancers. Overall your post comes across as an angry rhetorical…

Interestingly, while you are correct in my misunderstanding, I still have the same gripes. I personally take offense when someone attempts to illustrate their point with pejoratives rather than reason.

"weak willed" may have negative connotations, but I can't think of a less loaded word that would express the poster's meaning better.

"suggestible" comes to mind, but I don't think this is really the same thing.

And if the poster really believes that the parents are weak willed, I don't think that saying so can be considered as failing to use reason. In fact censoring oneself to use adjectives that carry less negative connotations, is a violation of reason.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#123

Post by duaneb » Sun, Dec 15, 2013, 8:37 PM UTC

yetanotherphd wrote: post #122

duaneb wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, while you are correct in my misunderstanding, I still have the same gripes. I personally take offense when someone attempts to illustrate their point with pejoratives rather than reason.

"weak willed" may have negative connotations, but I can't think of a less loaded word that would express the poster's meaning better. "suggestible" comes to mind, but I don't think this is really the same thing. And if the poster really believes that the parents are weak willed, I don't think that saying so can be considered as failing to use reason. In fact censoring oneself to use adjectives that carry less negativ…

Simply observing that most parents don't research the medication they give to their children would suffice. I don't see any reason to attribute character weaknesses.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#124

Post by adhdthrowaway » Sun, Dec 15, 2013, 8:52 PM UTC

This is a throwaway account. This piece is outrageous. It is not about the selling of ADHD, it's about the selling of ADHD medications, which are useful for everyone. There should be a discussion about their use in the general population, for improving concentration, focus, memory, and behavior. This would not actually be a discussion about ADHD.

I hate that these news pieces gloss over the importance of understanding, diagnosis, and treatment of actual ADHD. I think we have an epidemic of ADHDDDD. ADHD Definition Deficit Disorder. If you have the following symptoms:

1. You think ADHD is not real. 2. You think everyone has ADHD. 3. You think ADHD's status as a disorder is up for debate. 4. You think ADHD is just overdiagnosed, and not also dangerously underdiagnosed.

You may be suffering from ADHDDDD.

The best way to sort all of this confusion and controversy out is to educate people about what ADHD really is, with detailed information about individual cases [1]. Let's focus on the people who are actually suffering, instead of all the people who are both inappropriately buying and selling the disease. Proper knowledge of the former would lead to a self-regulation of the latter. If people actually knew how ADHD really manifests, then we'd stop flinging and/or sullying this useful clinical label.

I have adult ADHD and am in my late twenties. I was an amazing student as a kid. I am a software engineer at Google. I have no problems with the law or with substance abuse. I do have lots of problems though. I was diagnosed recently and started treatment, so I have not been impacted by a lifetime of "selling the disease", but I have always been impacted by a lifetime of the disease itself. My life is fucking weird. I just learned how to tie my shoes. I can't eat without making a mess. I talk to myself to keep myself stimulated. I could go on and on. Most people can barely fathom some of these behaviors.

If what you or your loved ones are dealing with is not really fierce and bizarre, then you can dismiss your concerns about ADHD. Regardless, if you have problems that might be addressed with stimulants, welcome to the club.

[1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/adhd_prog...

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#125

Post by jganetsk » Sun, Dec 15, 2013, 10:16 PM UTC

zw123456 wrote: post #42

I have often thought that if Einstein was a young person in a public school today they would probably put him on ritalin. It also appears there are a lot of dangerous side effects to these drugs that I think may be causing some of the things in the news lately, I tried posting some articles about this issue but it got blocked probably because some of the language getting snagged by HN's key word filters maybe.

Einstein had all kinds of struggles in his personal life. Maybe he could have been happier and even more productive. Don't be selfish and cruel to Einstein. He's not your physics monkey. He deserved happiness as well.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#126

Post by jganetsk » Sun, Dec 15, 2013, 10:43 PM UTC

atmosx wrote: post #95

I'm European, I live in Greece/Italy/Czech Republic. We don't we have ADHD or ADD as a notion in Europe. I'm having a hard time believing that it's an actual problem . But on the other hand dismissing easily something that people here believe they are affected from, it's wrong.

And the Greeks, Italians, and Czechs are so perfect that there is no room for the concept of ADHD in their societies? I had a close European friend whose existing psychiatric treatment could have greatly benefitted from an ADHD awareness. The doubting of ADHD (caused by anti-Americanism) has a negative impact on European society.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#127

Post by j_baker » Sun, Dec 15, 2013, 11:43 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #110

pedalpete wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amphetamine is not a bad word, much like Nuclear, Fat or Hacker. It's all in how and what it is used for. I have no idea how much Ampetamine is in Crystal Meth or other illegal substances (Google wasn't very helpful with this, I'm sure as always, somebody here on HN knows), but just because something has Amphetamine does not automatically make it a bad thing.

Methamphetamine is sold legally in the US under the name Desoxyn. I've read comments indicating that in double-blind trials, methamphetamine is not distinguishable from other amphetamines (apart from dosage).

Desoxyn is kind of a "drug of last resort" for ADHD. Most of the time Adderall is sufficient, but there are some people who just don't respond to anything else.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#128

Post by ThrowAway9392 » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 12:47 AM UTC

yetanotherphd wrote: post #120

ThrowAway9392 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest peer reviewed research completely disagrees with you. This is the diet humans and our ancestors ate for 2.5 million years and up until the past 10,000 years. This is the diet you and I were evolved to eat. The most recent peer reviewed research shows that saturated animal fats are extremely healthy (1)(2) if they come from wild or grass fed animals. Please read this response by Dr. Cordain (to a similar se…

There seems to be a methodological issue where you are copy-pasting arguments that support your view, without noting that other sources, including the one's I linked, in turn make arguments against the ones you have copy-pasted. I think that the consensus of medical experts trumps a minority opinion, and that is my basis for making this decision. I don't have time to read 1000s of articles or summaries, and even if I…

The research backs up the claim that saturated fats are good for you "in regards to weight loss, cardiovascular disease risk factors..." I don't see how there are any conflicts.

Honestly, this is why I am glad I made these statements with a throw away account. Look your are obviously not interested in having your mind changed. You can keep eating the food that has lead to more heart attacks and other food related deaths per person than any other time period. Or you could be willing to learn a little. Learn that the latest peer reviewed research shows grain and sugar are causing the epidemic we are in. Research that shows saturated fats are what our ancestors ate [1] and are extremely healthy (if coming from wild or grass fed sources, thus high in omega 3 fats).

[1] http://thepaleodiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/CRC-Chapt...

At the very least do you not agree with the author of Brain Grain? http://www.drperlmutter.com/about/bio/

"David Perlmutter, MD, FACN, ABIHM is a Board-Certified Neurologist and Fellow of the American College of Nutrition. He received his M.D. degree from the University of Miami School of Medicine where he was awarded the Leonard G. Rowntree Research Award for best research by a medical student. After completing residency training in Neurology, also at the University of Miami, Dr. Perlmutter entered private practice in Naples, Florida."

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#129

Post by goldenkey » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 2:07 AM UTC

ThrowAway9392 wrote: post #113

goldenkey wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't necessarily say the "processed" nutrients did it. How does fruit affect you? The change in sugar-content of your diet indicates that you are most likely pre-diabetic, hyperglycemic tendencies, hence sugar makes you tired. A healthy diet can do wonders.

I eat between 1-2 apples and a banana a day. From what I can remember they have never had the strong affect of having a slice of cheese cake (with out the bread) or other deserts have. They affect me in maybe a subtle way but not enough for me to take notice. I should probably try eating like 10 apples and see if its enough sugar to put my brain in ADHD mode. But honestly, I really try to avoid doing that. I really,…

I see, well whatever works man. I enjoy sugar but I find that I need enough protein to balance it out, otherwise I start feeling like crap. Sugar is a dangerous nutrient, most people don't realize that. It's good that you got your diet in order, a lot of people go through their whole life without finding out what makes them tick. Kudos man.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#130

Post by RankingMember » Mon, Dec 16, 2013, 2:45 PM UTC

vellum wrote: post #94

RankingMember wrote: post #55

I've been on adderall for awhile, and while it has had a marked positive effect on my ability to focus (which has been life changing), the negative side effects suck. I've looked into DIY biofeedback setups, and look forward to the day cheap off-the-shelf biofeedback setups become available for treating ADHD.

Try some l-theanine. It smooths out the jitters and the comedown effect. Take 100-200 mg every time you take Adderall and also before you go to sleep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine

I've tried l-theanine after finding it was the active ingredient in those "neuro bliss" drinks (and having noticed a positive effect, placebo or otherwise, from them). I honestly didn't notice a whole lot of difference taking the extract solo, but I'll give it another shot as I still have a bunch of them. Thanks.