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The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

nytimes.com

111–120 of 131 posts

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#111
post #64

There's a major black market at my college (top 10 liberal arts) for Ritalin and Adderall. At least half the students I know have, at some point, taken it as a study tool. It's super frustrating for the kids of have ADHD, because they need it to get on par with other students. Then other students take it to get another leg up.

The problem is the idea that academics need to be fair in some way. You could say that it's frustrating for people with dyslexia that other students use spell-check, since dyslexics need it just to be on par.

Everyone should be able to easily obtain such useful medications.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also got 1600. I read a lot. In high school (many years ago) I made a game of starting my math homework when the teacher started collecting it, and usually finished in time. I got very used to skimming by. I did graduate from university, but it was by the skin of my teeth. Other than that, OP's experience was very similar to my own. Depression played a huge role in all of this. (I'm doing fairly well now, but it wa…

Is there a name for people who go through this kind of life trajectory? I want to know if there is some kind of consensus on how to snap out of it.

"Underachievers"?

My college GPA ended up at 3.1. During the last two years, I got into a pattern of signing up for a full-time courseload and then completely ignoring (and failing) one of the classes (if this happens to you, I can only advise formally shifting to part-time status). I can provide some observations on particular things that got me through some classes:

One class I failed because I showed up on the first day, determined accurately that the subject material was quite easy, and stopped going for a while. I showed up again in the fourth week of class, and learned that I had already managed a failing grade for myself -- one component of the course grade was a series of four pop quizzes, of which two had already happened, and to pass the course overall it was necessary to pass each component.

Since that class was required for a CS degree, I had to retake it. Having failed it on a technicality pissed me off, so I showed up regularly and was quite vocal in class, and the professor (not the same one) became very familiar with me. When late in the term I finally flaked on a homework assignment, I felt enough of a connection to him that I spoke to him after class, saying I had been a little busier than usual and hadn't done the assignment (I made no offer to get it in late). He whacked me on the arm with the papers he was holding and said "do you need more time? Take another day!", at which point, obviously, I had to complete the assignment. I never missed another one.

So one lesson is: you will do work for a personal connection that your work ethic would not have motivated you to do. Wounded pride helps too.

I had a class in which I was one of four students. No real problems there either; it would have been too embarrassing.

Lesson: close oversight can keep you working.

In one class, I was already established in a flaking pattern when a girl in the class came to me and asked to be my partner (our university encouraged pair programming). From that point on, I had nothing better to do with my time than work on the class assignments. Impressing a professor didn't register with me, but impressing a girl did.

This one is kind of a special case of the first "lesson", so I'll say it helps if the reason you're working is something you find compelling.

This last point is something I have no personal experience with, but I imagine having friends who thought working on something potentially productive was a fun way to spend time would help me a lot. "Hey, let's take a udacity course together!" "Hey, let's learn rails and set up a website!" That kind of thing. Peer group matters too. :/

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#113

(Using a throw away account because of the stigma) For those who are curious if ADHD is real? I can tell you, from my personal experience, it is. I grew up with it all my life. It is hell. Then I randomly decided to try Paleo (cutting out gluten, sugar, grain and caffeine). And my ADHD is gone. I can focus, my mental fog is lifted, my lethargy is gone, I have the ability to enjoy normal activities. * My personal Proo…

I wouldn't necessarily say the "processed" nutrients did it. How does fruit affect you? The change in sugar-content of your diet indicates that you are most likely pre-diabetic, hyperglycemic tendencies, hence sugar makes you tired. A healthy diet can do wonders.

I eat between 1-2 apples and a banana a day. From what I can remember they have never had the strong affect of having a slice of cheese cake (with out the bread) or other deserts have. They affect me in maybe a subtle way but not enough for me to take notice. I should probably try eating like 10 apples and see if its enough sugar to put my brain in ADHD mode. But honestly, I really try to avoid doing that. I really, really hate having my brain in ADHD chemistry mode. I would rather have both my ankles throbbing in pain from sprains for the whole day than be in ADHD mode. At least I could get work done (albeit it in a wheel chair). Though, I would rather be in ADHD mode than have a migraine, so that tells you somewhat where on the pain scale it sits for me.

After writing this post yesterday, I went to the store and bought some gluten free bread (rice and potato flower) for the first time. I had a few pieces and it didn't seem to affect me much if at all. So even though I eat pure paleo, it might really just be the Gluten and Sugar (in decent quantities) that do me in.

I haven't really tried a bunch of experiments because I know what is safe for me. And the idea of trying something that will ruin my whole day (or longer) is not a fun prospect. So I stay pretty conservative and eat pure paleo for the most part. I cheat and eat cheese or beans some times. They don't seem to affect me.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#114

(Using a throw away account because of the stigma) For those who are curious if ADHD is real? I can tell you, from my personal experience, it is. I grew up with it all my life. It is hell. Then I randomly decided to try Paleo (cutting out gluten, sugar, grain and caffeine). And my ADHD is gone. I can focus, my mental fog is lifted, my lethargy is gone, I have the ability to enjoy normal activities. * My personal Proo…

One more note: When you are in a room with an air conditioner running, if after a few hours someone asked you do hear that air conditioner, most people would say no. If the air conditioner suddenly turned off everyone would notice how loud the air conditioner really was the whole time. This is similar to what ADHD was like for me. It wasn't until it was gone and then suddenly back that I finally started to grasp its real affects on me.

I spent most my life post high school life wondering if I had "ADHD". In high school I was clueless. I didn't know any one who had ADHD or about the disease. I just assumed I was super lazy. So even though I was feeling horrible everyday, because it was everyday: I couldn't compare it to anything. I just assumed I was feeling normal.

In fact there was so much stigma about "Is ADHD real, do I really have it?". Even after I was able to turn it off and then back on, at first I really didn't accept that it was that different. I was in major denial (I wanted to take responsibility for my laziness and not blame some "fake" disease). It wasn't until I was on Paleo full time for about 6 months and then I had a piece of bread and the horrible feelings started rushing back into my brain that I started to finally admit to myself that ADHD is real and that I have it.

And then my girl friend started to point out and get upset every time I cheated on Paleo because I would turn in to "Mr. Hyde" being rude, immature and very annoying. At first she hated the idea of me trying some fad diet. She loves cooking and hated what this change meant. Now she is my biggest cheerleader. Partially for my happiness, but to a large degree for her own.

So I can I can identify with a lot of the people who are advocating ADHD isn't a real disease, I was there. I can also say that attitude of shaming people (blaming the persons attitude, will power and not their brain chemistry), really fucked me up, to the point where I couldn't admit to myself how real the disease is for a long time. I went on and off Paleo for about 8 months before I finally, told my self this helps enough to be worth while. From my relapses, I can tell you it helps me in HUGE, HUGE way. I was in a lot of denial.

I also want to point out for me it was hard to admit that Paleo actually proved I had ADHD (I am not just super lazy). Years of beating myself up made this very hard. So if you do decide to try paleo, do it for at least 30 days. Keep a journal of how you feel at least once a week and then on the 30th day eat a bunch of bread, milk and sugar and journal how you feel. Try to get some work done. If you actually have the same allergy I have, the sooner you fully accept it the sooner you will start to heal the emotional wounds.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#115
post #27

I don't suffer from ADD/ADHD but I grew up during the 90's, when lots of kids in school, around me, were being put on all kinds of prescription medication, but most prevalent were the ADD/ADHD prescriptions. Of the roughly 20 names I can remember, who I know for a fact were prescribed ADD/ADHD medications, AND who I knew growing up both before the medication and after, there was only one guy that obviously had proble…

> weak-willed Can you provide a definition for this? I'm fucking sick of people going through this process: 1. Struggle to understand someone's problem. 2. Give up. 3. Blame the victim. If you see a problem, fix it. But nothing in your comment was at all helpful for the same people you were criticizing. This may come as a shock to you, but people struggle from different problems than you do. Some of them may seem eas…

"Weak willed" was referring to the parents, not alleged sufferers of ADD. Did you read the whole post, or did you just scan for words you don't like?

In context, "weak willed" referred to the fact that parents let themselves be convinced that their children had ADD when they should have known that they were being sold drugs that were merely performance enhancers.

Overall your post comes across as an angry rhetorical rant, while the original post had some interesting content.

The "solution" that I imagine the poster would propose is to recognize that Amphetamines offer advantages to almost anyone, and that either we should be honest about their use as performance enhancers, or find ways to distinguish between a genuine need for them, and their use for enhancement.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#116

(Using a throw away account because of the stigma) For those who are curious if ADHD is real? I can tell you, from my personal experience, it is. I grew up with it all my life. It is hell. Then I randomly decided to try Paleo (cutting out gluten, sugar, grain and caffeine). And my ADHD is gone. I can focus, my mental fog is lifted, my lethargy is gone, I have the ability to enjoy normal activities. * My personal Proo…

I would like to see less stigma attached to ADHD, and more attached to advocating unhealthy diets. The consensus by experts is that dietary saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for your health.

I would ask anyone trying to cure their ADHD, cancer, etc. to take a look at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat_and_cardiovascula...

and "Dietary Guidelines for Americans" http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/DGAs2010-PolicyDocument.htm

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#117

(Using a throw away account because of the stigma) For those who are curious if ADHD is real? I can tell you, from my personal experience, it is. I grew up with it all my life. It is hell. Then I randomly decided to try Paleo (cutting out gluten, sugar, grain and caffeine). And my ADHD is gone. I can focus, my mental fog is lifted, my lethargy is gone, I have the ability to enjoy normal activities. * My personal Proo…

I would like to see less stigma attached to ADHD, and more attached to advocating unhealthy diets. The consensus by experts is that dietary saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for your health. I would ask anyone trying to cure their ADHD, cancer, etc. to take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat_and_cardiovascula... and "Dietary Guidelines for Americans" http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/DGAs2010-PolicyDocum…

The latest peer reviewed research completely disagrees with you. This is the diet humans and our ancestors ate for 2.5 million years and up until the past 10,000 years. This is the diet you and I were evolved to eat. The most recent peer reviewed research shows that saturated animal fats are extremely healthy (1)(2) if they come from wild or grass fed animals.

Please read this response by Dr. Cordain (to a similar set of statements). "It is obvious that whoever wrote this piece did not do their homework and has not read the peer review scientific papers which have examined contemporary diets based upon the Paleolithic food groups which shaped the genomes of our ancestors.... five studies (1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7); four since 2007, have experimentally tested contemporary versions of ancestral human diets and have found them to be superior to Mediterranean diets, diabetic diets and typical western diets in regards to weight loss, cardiovascular disease risk factors and risk factors for type 2 diabetes.

The first study to experimentally test diets devoid of grains, dairy and processed foods was performed by Dr. Kerin O’Dea at the University of Melbourne and published in the Journal, Diabetes in 1984 (6). In this study Dr. O’Dea gathered together 10 middle aged Australian Aborigines who had been born in the “Outback”. They had lived their early days primarily as hunter gatherers until they had no choice but to finally settle into a rural community with access to western goods. Predictably, all ten subjects eventually became overweight and developed type 2 diabetes as they adopted western sedentary lifestyles in the community of Mowwanjum in the northern Kimberley region of Western Australia. However, inherent in their upbringing was the knowledge to live and survive in this seemingly desolate land without any of the trappings of the modern world.

Dr. O’Dea requested these 10 middle aged subjects to revert to their former lives as hunter gatherers for a seven week period. All agreed and traveled back into the isolated land from which they originated. Their daily sustenance came only from native foods that could be foraged, hunted or gathered. Instead of white bread, corn, sugar, powdered milk and canned foods, they began to eat the traditional fresh foods of their ancestral past: kangaroos, birds, crocodiles, turtles, shellfish, yams, figs, yabbies (freshwater crayfish), freshwater bream and bush honey. At the experiment’s conclusion, the results were spectacular, but not altogether unexpected given what known about Paleo diets, even then. The average weight loss in the group was 16.5 lbs; blood cholesterol dropped by 12 % and triglycerides were reduced by a whopping 72 %. Insulin and glucose metabolism became normal, and their diabetes effectively disappeared.

The first recent study to experimentally test contemporary Paleo diets was published in 2007 (5). Dr. Lindeberg and associates placed 29 patients with type 2 diabetes and heart disease on either a Paleo diet or a Mediterranean diet based upon whole grains, low-fat dairy products, vegetables, fruits, fish, oils, and margarines. Note that the Paleo diet excludes grains, dairy products and margarines while encouraging greater consumption of meat and fish. After 12 weeks on either diet blood glucose tolerance (a risk factor for heart disease) improved in both groups, but was better in the Paleo dieters. In a 2010 follow-up publication, of this same experiment the Paleo diet was shown to be more satiating on a calorie by calorie basis than the Mediterranean diet because it caused greater changes in leptin, a hormone which regulates appetite and body weight.

In the second modern study (2008) of Paleo Diets, Dr. Osterdahl and co-workers (7) put 14 healthy subjects on a Paleo diet. After only three weeks the subjects lost weight, reduced their waist size and experienced significant reductions in blood pressure, and plasminogen activator inhibitor (a substance in blood which promotes clotting and accelerates artery clogging). Because no control group was employed in this study, some scientists would argue that the beneficial changes might not necessarily be due to the Paleo diet. However, a better controlled more recent experiments showed similar results.

In 2009, Dr. Frasetto and co-workers (1) put nine inactive subjects on a Paleo diet for just 10 days. In this experiment, the Paleo diet was exactly matched in calories with the subjects’ usual diet. Anytime people eat diets that are calorically reduced, no matter what foods are involved, they exhibit beneficial health effects. So the beauty of this experiment was that any therapeutic changes in the subjects’ health could not be credited to reductions in calories, but rather to changes in the types of food eaten. While on the Paleo diet either eight or all nine participants experienced improvements in blood pressure, arterial function, insulin, total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol and triglycerides. What is striking about this experiment is how rapidly so many markers of health improved, and that they occurred in every single patient.

In an even more convincing recent (2009) experiment, Dr. Lindeberg and colleagues (2) compared the effects of a Paleo diet to a diabetes diet generally recommended for patients with type 2 diabetes. The diabetes diet was intended to reduce total fat by increasing whole grain bread and cereals, low fat dairy products, fruits and vegetables while restricting animal foods. In contrast, the Paleo diet was lower in cereals, dairy products, potatoes, beans, and bakery foods but higher in fruits, vegetables, meat, and eggs compared to the diabetes diet. The strength of this experiment was its cross over design in which all 13 diabetes patients first ate one diet for three months and then crossed over and ate the other diet for three months. Compared to the diabetes diet, the Paleo diet resulted in improved weight loss, waist size, blood pressure, HDL cholesterol, triglycerides, blood glucose and hemoglobin A1c (a marker for long term blood glucose control). This experiment represents the most powerful example to date of the Paleo diet’s effectiveness in treating people with serious health problems."

References

(1) Frassetto LA, Schloetter M, Mietus-Synder M, Morris RC, Jr., Sebastian A: Metabolic and physiologic improvements from consuming a paleolithic, hunter-gatherer type diet. Eur J Clin Nutr 2009.

(2) Jönsson T, Granfeldt Y, Ahrén B, Branell UC, Pålsson G, Hansson A, Söderström M, Lindeberg S. Beneficial effects of a Paleolithic diet on cardiovascular risk factors in type 2 diabetes: a randomized cross-over pilot study. Cardiovasc Diabetol. 2009;8:35

(3) Jonsson T, Granfeldt Y, Erlanson-Albertsson C, Ahren B, Lindeberg S. A Paleolithic diet is more satiating per calorie than a Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease. Nutr Metab (Lond). 2010 Nov 30;7(1):85

(4) Jonsson T, Ahren B, Pacini G, Sundler F, Wierup N, Steen S, Sjoberg T, Ugander M, Frostegard J, Goransson Lindeberg S: A Paleolithic diet confers higher insulin sensitivity, lower C-reactive protein and lower blood pressure than a cereal-based diet in domestic pigs. Nutr Metab (Lond) 2006, 3:39.

(5) Lindeberg S, Jonsson T, Granfeldt Y, Borgstrand E, Soffman J, Sjostrom K, Ahren B: A Palaeolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischaemic heart disease. Diabetologia 2007, 50(9):1795-1807.

(6) O'Dea K: Marked improvement in carbohydrate and lipid metabolism in diabetic Australian aborigines after temporary reversion to traditional lifestyle. Diabetes 1984, 33(6):596-603.

(7) Osterdahl M, Kocturk T, Koochek A, Wandell PE: Effects of a short-term intervention with a paleolithic diet in healthy volunteers. Eur J Clin Nutr 2008, 62(5):682-685.

View full response for all references https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-paleo-diet/dr-cordains-re...

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#118
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> weak-willed Can you provide a definition for this? I'm fucking sick of people going through this process: 1. Struggle to understand someone's problem. 2. Give up. 3. Blame the victim. If you see a problem, fix it. But nothing in your comment was at all helpful for the same people you were criticizing. This may come as a shock to you, but people struggle from different problems than you do. Some of them may seem eas…

"Weak willed" was referring to the parents, not alleged sufferers of ADD. Did you read the whole post, or did you just scan for words you don't like? In context, "weak willed" referred to the fact that parents let themselves be convinced that their children had ADD when they should have known that they were being sold drugs that were merely performance enhancers. Overall your post comes across as an angry rhetorical…

Interestingly, while you are correct in my misunderstanding, I still have the same gripes. I personally take offense when someone attempts to illustrate their point with pejoratives rather than reason.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#119
post #19

As a person with ADHD, that article was too long to hold my attention (no, I'm not making a joke here). Also, as a person with ADHD who takes Adderall I don't see what the big fuss about it as a drug/medicine is. It works. I don't (personally) note any side effects, and don't see any reason that I'd stop taking it. Before taking Adderall I was essentially self-medicating my ADHD with copious amounts of coffee on a da…

Over diagnosed? Sure. But I don't see why this drug is so demonized

Nobody dislikes Adderall. If you need it, I've never met anyone who would begrudge taking it. The demonization is of over diagnosis; Adderall is the poster-child.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to see less stigma attached to ADHD, and more attached to advocating unhealthy diets. The consensus by experts is that dietary saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for your health. I would ask anyone trying to cure their ADHD, cancer, etc. to take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat_and_cardiovascula... and "Dietary Guidelines for Americans" http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/DGAs2010-PolicyDocum…

The latest peer reviewed research completely disagrees with you. This is the diet humans and our ancestors ate for 2.5 million years and up until the past 10,000 years. This is the diet you and I were evolved to eat. The most recent peer reviewed research shows that saturated animal fats are extremely healthy (1)(2) if they come from wild or grass fed animals. Please read this response by Dr. Cordain (to a similar se…

There seems to be a methodological issue where you are copy-pasting arguments that support your view, without noting that other sources, including the one's I linked, in turn make arguments against the ones you have copy-pasted.

I think that the consensus of medical experts trumps a minority opinion, and that is my basis for making this decision.

I don't have time to read 1000s of articles or summaries, and even if I did, I don't see how my judgement on the matter would be superior to an expert's. Similarly, you are not actually addressing the sources I quote, and so you are making an appeal to authority, just a weaker form of authority.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet#Intervention_s... for a critical discussion of the studies you mentioned.

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