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24th Birthday: What it’s like to be 24 for a Software Engineer in India

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Re: 24th Birthday: What it’s like to be 24 for a Software Engineer in India

#51

If someone asked me what my salary was, I'd kick them in the teeth. Not sure if that's a 'British' thing, but asking someone what their salary is, is really rude!

Welcome to India. Around 22, all your relatives (especially aunts) turn into marriage bureaus and need this information. Hell, even matrimonial ads feature "x figure income" here!

Re: 24th Birthday: What it’s like to be 24 for a Software Engineer in India

#52
post #44

What about female software engineers in India? I know this is off topic, but I wonder what pressures they feel at 24. What are their relatives asking them? Back on topic, happy birthday Mr Jalan!

They certainly do feel a lot of pressure. But their opinions about their life and career are respected, at least for my female friends.

Re: 24th Birthday: What it’s like to be 24 for a Software Engineer in India

#54

Happy birthday, you think 24 is bad? I'm gonna be 29 in May, and I'm an American, and I feel pressured to get married and have kids too.. Haha.

You and Jalan are really freaking me out. I am in early twenties and about to finish studies. I'm more of an introvert and people asking me all those questions is going to be, well, quite unpleasant!

Re: 24th Birthday: What it’s like to be 24 for a Software Engineer in India

#55

I think the outsourcing industry has killed tech entrepreneurship in India. I have checked with many 24-30 year olds, and all of them are doing the same grind for some outsourced project.

No it didn't. It probably empowered the economy, you just know lot of people in outsourcing industry.

Re: 24th Birthday: What it’s like to be 24 for a Software Engineer in India

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I've outsourced to India, Uruguay, Poland and I think Ukraine. Every single line of code from outsourcing has been thrown away. That was from finding a dev shop and them leasing one of their "devs" for x per hour (x was never under $20). When I learnt my lesson, I thought about it and removed the indirection. Since 2011 I've only hired directly, but still remotely. I explain exactly what quality level is expect…

I recently did a code review for some work from a team in Ukraine. I was not expecting much - instead, I was blown away. The code was phenomenally well put together, good tests in place, comments were clear enough - this was tens of thousands of lines of code I'd never seen before and I was able to find my way around - and understand it - within just a few minutes. Not once did I cringe or find anything desperately i…

Yes, I talked to Ukrainian developers and many of them care about code quality. It's a relatively small community but a very strong one.

Re: 24th Birthday: What it’s like to be 24 for a Software Engineer in India

#57
post #28
post #2

"IMHO work quality is severely underrated in India, everything just needs to be done, the end quality does not matter, it should just work, that's enough" - this fact about Indian software development is well-known throughout the world.

Yeah but that doesn't mean Indian developers are bad. Indian companies try to approach a different market which values speed over quality. No one likes this. No one, not even the people who offer this kind of service in this or other sectors. But it's how you make a living.

I am not going to argue with this.

Re: 24th Birthday: What it’s like to be 24 for a Software Engineer in India

#58
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I think that there's nothing national in this. It's just because the majority of the development work in India is being done in outsourcing. When you outsource you rarely pay for 'quality code', you pay for the code that works, delivered on time and preferably below the budget. Okay, you get what you're paying for. Having said that I realize that this is a vicious cycle - young developers can write good code…

This. I've outsourced to India, Uruguay, Poland and I think Ukraine. Every single line of code from outsourcing has been thrown away. That was from finding a dev shop and them leasing one of their "devs" for x per hour (x was never under $20). When I learnt my lesson, I thought about it and removed the indirection. Since 2011 I've only hired directly, but still remotely. I explain exactly what quality level is expect…

Don't forget, programmers only care about code quality when they deal with code maintenance. Most outsourced work never deals with code maintenance, so almost nobody learns to care about it.

Re: 24th Birthday: What it’s like to be 24 for a Software Engineer in India

#59
Hey, firstly Happy Birthday!

>>I mean, literally, give me some personal space. I am just (about to be) 24. I have to achieve some things in my life first, I have set some goals.

You know what, go check what has become of people who marry late and have all sort of financial commitments like their daughters marriage or their retirement year or their kids educational fees coming pounding on them just 2 years from their retirement.

There is a reason why people prescribe early marriage, you can be off your responsibilities early. And that ensures you have a peaceful time after your 50's.

>>In India, it's hard for people to believe that a person can be successful by bootstrapping his own business.

So wrong, Stories of successful Marwari's, Gujrati's and People from Kerala are a common place in India. Please don't generalize so much. So people know the truth too, but its not about the truth, Its about safety and fear.

To understand why parents in India prevent their kids from starting their own business, especially those from lower middle class and poor back grounds is the fact that parents slog like dogs their whole life to get their kids into a position where they can secure a decent job. Imagine giving all that away(Decades worth hardwork) and risk it all on a venture which statistically is almost assured to fail.

For the higher middle class and rich kids this is nothing. Because they fall back on father's property and some thick dowry sort of gifts coming in a never ending stream from their father in law to keep them and sustain them in the game.

For some one poor it means game over, and they have start all over again work a few decades and hope their kids don't make the same mistake again.

>>The term "Entrepreneur" here in India is a synonym for "Jobless".

That's because starting up petty grocery stores was the trend if you didn't net a job else where.

>>If you are not employed, then be ready to hear some harsh comments from your relatives

May be for a good reason. If you are 24 and still expecting your dad to support you to buy a tooth brush in the morning. I don't think that's acceptable.

>>98% of Indian Population have not even heard the word "Github" in their entire life, yet everyone acts like they know this stuff

98% of the population in any country haven't heard about Github. Have you heard of the top civil engineering related discussion site? How many times do you visit that site per day?

>>(IMHO work quality is severely underrated in India, everything just needs to be done, the end quality does not matter, it should just work, that's enough

Who told you that? I've worked on some top notch projects here. You get what you want. If your aim is simply to buy a few expensive flats in Bangalore, buy a car, watch movies in a multiplex all weekend and eat out. You might as well play some dirty polities secure a undeserved promotion and travel abroad to fund it.

But there are awesome projects all over the place. You will get them if you look for them.

>>From where you have done your Engineering

Because statistically speaking, someone with an engineering degree generally does better than the one that doesn't.

>>The brand name of the company you work for (Infosys...

I've worked in one such a company, Most of the people who worked with are all doing well. Many have started companies, and many are working public projects of importance.

Do you even know what kind of ecosystem, training, infrastructure and facilities such companies offer. Its next to impossible to match that outside such companies, I was fortunate to have benefited immensely in early parts of my career. If you walk in a gold mine, and worry all about mud, I'm not surprised if you don't find gold ever.

>>Luckily for me, my parents were supportive...

Finally! There are folks in this country whose parents don't have the money to buy them even a pair of slippers throughout their entire 4 years of engineering. I hope you understand why such people make choices they make.

Re: 24th Birthday: What it’s like to be 24 for a Software Engineer in India

#60

I think the outsourcing industry has killed tech entrepreneurship in India. I have checked with many 24-30 year olds, and all of them are doing the same grind for some outsourced project.

Outsourcing industry is the only reason, why the tech entrepreneurship even exists in India.

Its easy to troll on these companies for not offering us the great life in a gift box. But the fact is bulk of the infrastructure, reputation and even the very trend to help build the entire ecosystem was done by these companies.

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