Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

rollingstone.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 211 posts

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#181

Post by Zoomla »

mseebach wrote: post #25
randyrand wrote: post #8

Its hard for me to seriously consider changing my opinion from an article that shows its biases so clearly. You show me the worst case scenario, but what is the average case? Also, what are the alternatives to these techniques? If you don't like cattle prodding, what do you suggest instead? Not eating meat or drinking milk is not going to be an acceptable answer. Edit: Not going to be acceptable as an alternative to…

Pay more for your meat. Eat less meat to pay for it if you must. Research the premium brands available in your supermarket - the words "free range" or "organic" on their own are pretty meaningless. Find out what delivery services are available in your area, research them. Buy from a provider you trust.

This is a useless advice as there is no accountability/testing for these claims.... you cannot even be sure what kind of fish that you are buying nowadays (organic is even harder to prove). DNA testing would solve that, but the FDA apparently don't have the budget. For example: https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/one-third-fish... .

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#182

Post by WalterSear »

bane wrote: post #174
WalterSear wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My doctors would disagree with that. Like I said, it's depressing how much ignorance is thrown around here on this topic.

You'd be surprised at how well studied I am on veganism.

Yes, considering your comment, I'll be surprised if you know anything about it.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#183

Post by jtreminio »

tspiteri wrote: post #104
danpat wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my experience almost exactly (s/Yukon/Alberta/). I now hunt yearly and basically don't any meat that I didn't kill myself. One deer is enough for a couple for a year. I found the experience it very self-illuminating, the hypocrisy of will-not-kill-but-will-eat-from-store became much more focused. The experience of hunting wildly varies. I've had one or two gut-wrenching bad shots, hitting the animal in…

If it works for you, fine. But I object to you calling people who eat what they do not kill hypocrites. If someone takes part in a protest against meat products because of animal suffering, and then eats meat or wears leather, they are hypocrites. But if they cannot bring themselves to kill the animal themselves but still eat meat, they are not hypocrites. If they were, people who are queasy when they see blood, but…

> If someone takes part in a protest against meat products because of animal suffering, and then eats meat or wears leather, they are hypocrites.

I highly disagree.

Why would wearing a leather jacket make me a hypocrite? It's very much possible to raise and butcher an animal humanely, and still enjoy its meat and leather.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#184

Post by tspiteri »

jtreminio wrote: post #183
tspiteri wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it works for you, fine. But I object to you calling people who eat what they do not kill hypocrites. If someone takes part in a protest against meat products because of animal suffering, and then eats meat or wears leather, they are hypocrites. But if they cannot bring themselves to kill the animal themselves but still eat meat, they are not hypocrites. If they were, people who are queasy when they see blood, but…

> If someone takes part in a protest against meat products because of animal suffering, and then eats meat or wears leather, they are hypocrites. I highly disagree. Why would wearing a leather jacket make me a hypocrite? It's very much possible to raise and butcher an animal humanely, and still enjoy its meat and leather.

I was not specific enough. I should have said if someone takes part in a protest against all meat products. You are right: it is not hypocritical to campaign against inhumane treatment of animals but not against humane butchering.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#185

Post by bane »

WalterSear wrote: post #180
bane wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you too, are likely to be running a vitamin B12 deficiency Citation please? I've looked into this subject pretty intensely over the last decade or so and know of no controlled studies (or even poorly done observational studies) that demonstrate this in the least. The only place I've ever even seen this claim is on vegan advocacy forums as unsubstantiated claims or in studies of nutrition absorption problems as a ge…

"Vitamin B-12 deficiency and depletion are common in wealthier countries, particularly among the elderly, and are most prevalent in poorer populations around the world. This prevalence was underestimated in the past for several reasons, including the erroneous belief that deficiency is unlikely except in strict vegetarians or patients with pernicious anemia, and that it usually takes ≈20 y for stores of the vitamin t…

"The only place I've ever even seen this claim is on vegan advocacy forums as unsubstantiated claims or in studies of nutrition absorption problems as a general factor in the elderly."

I'm looking for non-elderly studies, who, because of general age-related issues suffer from all-around nutritional deficiencies. In other words, we already know old people are sick in a variety of ways, I'm challenging you to support your claim, directed to non-vegans that

> you too, are likely to be running a vitamin B12 deficiency

I want to say it's absurdly untrue and laughable on its face, but I'm willing to eat my words if you can produce a couple independent studies that demonstrate your claim without citing some unattributed nonsense from veganforum.com or other rubbish filled site.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#186

Post by grecy »

arsenerei wrote: post #99
grecy wrote: post #31

A couple of years ago I moved to the Yukon and had the opportunity to go Moose hunting. I really didn't know if I'd be OK with killing such a large animal and "getting down to it" and have found to experience to be quite powerful. There is a lot of respect for the animal and we treat every square centimeter of edible meat with the utmost care. It's quite a strange sensation to be working so hard (it's extremely heavy…

I have a few questions in regard to your powerful and enlightening experience: * Will you only cook what you kill? * If not, will this experience change the type of meat you purchase? (e.g., free range only) * Have you or will you now cook offal?

Absolutely, happy to answer whatever questions you have.

* Will you only cook what you kill?*

Yep. I have only eaten meat and fish that I (or my close friends) have hunted for the last ~2.5 years. We get a Moose every year, we've gotten a few bison, I go salmon fishing lots.

* If not, will this experience change the type of meat you purchase? (e.g., free range only)*

It's been so long since I even looked at meat for sale, I honestly couldn't tell you how much it even costs. I buy free-range eggs, and prefer local when I can find it.

* Have you or will you now cook offal?*

We always keep (and cook) the heart, a friend keeps (and cooks) the liver. So far, I have not kept or eaten anything else. I'm not against the idea, it's not something I've explored or learned about. I have kept a few of the hides, but getting them tanned is wickedly expensive and I don't have much use for them. I try to give them away.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#187

Post by grecy »

famousactress wrote: post #42
grecy wrote: post #31

A couple of years ago I moved to the Yukon and had the opportunity to go Moose hunting. I really didn't know if I'd be OK with killing such a large animal and "getting down to it" and have found to experience to be quite powerful. There is a lot of respect for the animal and we treat every square centimeter of edible meat with the utmost care. It's quite a strange sensation to be working so hard (it's extremely heavy…

I really wish more people who eat meat would put themselves in a position to experience this. It's awesome that you took away so much respect for the animal and the process. I'd love to see that kind of awareness at scale. (full disclosure: I'm vegan)

I agree 100%

My brother is vegetarian, and bordered on vegan for a few years, my girlfriend is the same, and before hunting I was eating meat maybe once a week or two.

Going into the first hunt, I said to myself "if you can't handle this, then you should stop eating meat". The first time it was a little gruesome and shocking, but it was a fantastic learning experience and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#188

Post by grecy »

danpat wrote: post #57
grecy wrote: post #31

A couple of years ago I moved to the Yukon and had the opportunity to go Moose hunting. I really didn't know if I'd be OK with killing such a large animal and "getting down to it" and have found to experience to be quite powerful. There is a lot of respect for the animal and we treat every square centimeter of edible meat with the utmost care. It's quite a strange sensation to be working so hard (it's extremely heavy…

This has been my experience almost exactly (s/Yukon/Alberta/). I now hunt yearly and basically don't any meat that I didn't kill myself. One deer is enough for a couple for a year. I found the experience it very self-illuminating, the hypocrisy of will-not-kill-but-will-eat-from-store became much more focused. The experience of hunting wildly varies. I've had one or two gut-wrenching bad shots, hitting the animal in…

> The experience of hunting wildly varies. I've had one or two gut-wrenching bad shots, hitting the animal in the leg then having to track it down and end it.

So far I've been involved in 4 moose, 3 bison and a few sheep. Because the animals are so large, and we're often in extremely remote places making recovery a challenge, we won't take a shot unless we know it's a good one. So far I've never seen an animal take more than 1 step after the first shot, though we usually unload on it to kill it as quickly as possible. I only shoot a 30/.06 180grain which is the minimum legal for bison, so unloading quickly is a good idea.

> Regardless of the experience, you reflect on what you've just done far more than when you buy meat on a shelf.

Absolutely, which I think is the most important part. Every time I unwrap some meat from the freezer I can't stop the memories flooding into my mind of how it looked standing up, how we butchered it, how back breaking the work was, and how hard it was to canoe/hike/whatever out of there with it. Amazing.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#189

Post by nimble »

epochwolf wrote: post #179
nimble wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sentience doesn't mean what you think it does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience

Okay, I used the wrong word. My point remains unchanged. Animals, in their various are not capable of enough intelligence or self-reasoning to be considered thinking beings requiring equal protection with people. It is not morally wrong for a human to hunt animals, farm animals, use animals for labor, or keep animals as pets. This does not make it right for a human to deliberately cause harm to an animal for pleasure…

I agree with you. My point was: you used the wrong word. :)

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#190

Post by mseebach »

Zoomla wrote: post #181
mseebach wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay more for your meat. Eat less meat to pay for it if you must. Research the premium brands available in your supermarket - the words "free range" or "organic" on their own are pretty meaningless. Find out what delivery services are available in your area, research them. Buy from a provider you trust.

This is a useless advice as there is no accountability/testing for these claims.... you cannot even be sure what kind of fish that you are buying nowadays (organic is even harder to prove). DNA testing would solve that, but the FDA apparently don't have the budget. For example: https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/one-third-fish... .

That's where the "research" bit comes in. Take that report to your fish-monger[1] and ask him about it. If he has a strong opinion about it he's probably a keeper. If not, ditch him and get your fish from somewhere else. Again, check online vendors.

1: Here's a direct link to the actual report so you don't come off as someone who gets his information from tabloid newspapers: http://oceana.org/sites/default/files/Fishy_Business_updated...

Post reply on HN