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The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

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Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#41

Post by wernercd »

logjam wrote: post #15
randyrand wrote: post #8

Its hard for me to seriously consider changing my opinion from an article that shows its biases so clearly. You show me the worst case scenario, but what is the average case? Also, what are the alternatives to these techniques? If you don't like cattle prodding, what do you suggest instead? Not eating meat or drinking milk is not going to be an acceptable answer. Edit: Not going to be acceptable as an alternative to…

Really. It's "not an acceptable answer." Really. And you were saying something about "bias"? Kindly explain to us all how "eating meat" and the suffering that inevitably accompanies it is necessary or even desirable.

Tell us how not eating meat is necessary or desirable?

I don't mind a salad, but we are omnivores and I have no issue eating meat (or byproducts like milk and cheese). I rather enjoy being at the top of the food chain.

There is nothing wrong with enforcing humane treatment and handling of animals. I think THAT is a very valid cause to fight for. Animals do deserve to live comfortably without the idiocy that they are somehow people too.

Eating meat = Suffering is every bit as stupid as Guns = Violence. It's all about doing stuff responsibly.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#42

Post by famousactress »

grecy wrote: post #31

A couple of years ago I moved to the Yukon and had the opportunity to go Moose hunting. I really didn't know if I'd be OK with killing such a large animal and "getting down to it" and have found to experience to be quite powerful. There is a lot of respect for the animal and we treat every square centimeter of edible meat with the utmost care. It's quite a strange sensation to be working so hard (it's extremely heavy…

I really wish more people who eat meat would put themselves in a position to experience this. It's awesome that you took away so much respect for the animal and the process. I'd love to see that kind of awareness at scale. (full disclosure: I'm vegan)

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#43

Post by colanderman »

iambateman wrote: post #38

"If you’re a broiler chicken... you weigh at least double what you would in the wild, but lack the muscle even to waddle, let alone fly." So...yeah chickens don't fly. Otherwise this article is good. There's a lot to be said for responsible consumption.

From Wikipedia:

Domestic chickens are not capable of long distance flight, although lighter birds are generally capable of flying for short distances, such as over fences or into trees (where they would naturally roost). Chickens may occasionally fly briefly to explore their surroundings, but generally do so only to flee perceived danger.

So…yeah chickens do fly short distances, unless they weigh too much.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#44

Post by Shivetya »

randyrand wrote: post #8

Its hard for me to seriously consider changing my opinion from an article that shows its biases so clearly. You show me the worst case scenario, but what is the average case? Also, what are the alternatives to these techniques? If you don't like cattle prodding, what do you suggest instead? Not eating meat or drinking milk is not going to be an acceptable answer. Edit: Not going to be acceptable as an alternative to…

In many industries there are always extremes. Consider all those series about restaurants and the famous chef trying to right them. Really, how are some of those places in business? How are inspectors not fired? After all its clearly convincing that some of them are a threat to both customer and employee.

So it goes with farming. However having grown up around this industry I do know that farmers themselves do not tolerate suffering of animals in their care, and regardless if they are dairy or meat, they are in your care. You are also on the lookout for conditions that will get you fined or shutdown.

So my bias when it comes to this article is this, if the evidence is so convincing then where are the inspectors? Where is the government? Surely something so exaggerated must deserve immediate attention!

Sadly, considering the names of some of involved organizations I dismiss their stories immediately. Especially anyone dealing with PETA and similar. Groups whose only interest is headlines and are more than willing to ignore abuses to animals in government run shelters, if not their own run facilities.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#45

Post by api »

codex_irl wrote: post #29

ugh...this is the reason I have not eaten poultry for the last 10 years, except when I am back in Ireland where I can buy organic, free-range chicken from a farmer....it might cost $27 a pop, but as my grandma says....it tastes & has the texture of what chicken used to be like. I used to love bacon / pork, but cannot eat that stuff anymore after reading about how toxins are formed / retained in the meat. The only bee…

"there is no escaping the high cost of staying healthy in western, urban centers."

You can go largely vegetarian, eating meat only rarely. But you have to take care that your diet is balanced.

It's also a great way to save energy. I recall reading once that going even mostly vegetarian saves more energy than trading in a Hummer for a Prius.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#46

Post by huherto »

contextual wrote: post #26

If the suffering of animals matters, then eating meat is morally wrong. Animals are non-human persons who are aware of their own existence and who feel a wide range of emotions, just like we do. Killing animals may still be acceptable in western society, but it's wrong. It's wrong just as slavery in the United States in the 18th and 19th century was once acceptable but wrong. Just as hanging, drawing and quartering t…

I am aware that we are causing pain to animals. But eating meat gives me so much happiness that I am not willing to live without it.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#47

Post by api »

contextual wrote: post #26

If the suffering of animals matters, then eating meat is morally wrong. Animals are non-human persons who are aware of their own existence and who feel a wide range of emotions, just like we do. Killing animals may still be acceptable in western society, but it's wrong. It's wrong just as slavery in the United States in the 18th and 19th century was once acceptable but wrong. Just as hanging, drawing and quartering t…

Technological advances can enable advances in morality, or at least ease them. Soon we will be able to grow meat and milk at least without the animal.

I for one would immediately switch to vegan meat and dairy.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#48

Post by contextual »

gambiting wrote: post #34
contextual wrote: post #26

If the suffering of animals matters, then eating meat is morally wrong. Animals are non-human persons who are aware of their own existence and who feel a wide range of emotions, just like we do. Killing animals may still be acceptable in western society, but it's wrong. It's wrong just as slavery in the United States in the 18th and 19th century was once acceptable but wrong. Just as hanging, drawing and quartering t…

So is there no middle ground then? Is it a simple case of you can't have one without another? I believe that you can eat meat, provided that animals live in a decent,stress-free environment. I know it's very hard to find meat that carries any sort of a guarantee on it,but at least here in EU "free range" and "organic" mean something that is legally enforceable, so every time I buy chicken/beef/pork that is organic I…

By abstaining and choosing plant-based alternatives to meat, we stop factory farming, and we support the humane treatment and dignity of animals.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#49

Post by redidas »

timjahn wrote: post #39
contextual wrote: post #26

If the suffering of animals matters, then eating meat is morally wrong. Animals are non-human persons who are aware of their own existence and who feel a wide range of emotions, just like we do. Killing animals may still be acceptable in western society, but it's wrong. It's wrong just as slavery in the United States in the 18th and 19th century was once acceptable but wrong. Just as hanging, drawing and quartering t…

Where does the food chain fit in? The idea of certain species and groups of animals being higher and lower on the food chain than others. Do we just ignore that? Genuinely curious.

The animal as people logic doesn't hold up. With this reasoning what do we do about animals that hunt and kill other animals for food. Are they behaving immorally because they must kill to survive?

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#50

Post by watty »

contextual wrote: post #26

If the suffering of animals matters, then eating meat is morally wrong. Animals are non-human persons who are aware of their own existence and who feel a wide range of emotions, just like we do. Killing animals may still be acceptable in western society, but it's wrong. It's wrong just as slavery in the United States in the 18th and 19th century was once acceptable but wrong. Just as hanging, drawing and quartering t…

No, killing an animal for food is not as morally wrong as slavery or murdering a person. Are you joking?

Animals all over the planet kill each other for food. It's part of life. Farm animals are not people and never will be. It's silly to think they deserve the rights of people or to be on the same moral high grounds as people.

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