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Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

tommorris.org

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Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#71

Post by will_work4tears »

CmonDev wrote: post #27
lingoberry wrote: post #7

But there IS a distinction between web site and web app. Blogs, news, forums and the like should not be web apps, they shouldn't use client side rendering and fancy widgets. The Spotify web player however IS a web app, and it would suck tremendously if it wasn't built as such. Can we stop with the black and white reasoning already? Yes, many things that claim to be web apps today shouldn't be, but that doesn't mean t…

Spotify desktop app is awesome. There is no real need for a web app.

Well, I can only install certain apps on my work computer, and Spotify is not on the CON, but I can use the web app (and is fine here to listen to music while working). I'd argue that there are valid use cases for a web app.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#72

Post by Yaa101 »

tommorris wrote: post #13
Yaa101 wrote: post #11

From the article: "The only person who is significantly injured by turning off JavaScript on my site is me, because it’s needed for the login system and posting UI". To me this is more sad than the tenure of the article as JS should not be needed to do this at all, I do not need that on my website. I also disagree with making everything uniform in usage as it brings boredom to the field, for me most exiting times in…

There may be stuff I add to my site that needs scripting. And I may take the scripting out for the login. The posting UI is just for geolocation which you can't do without JS.

Nice for you to reply on my opinion, this tells me to take you serious even though we disagree on things.

I do wonder why one needs geolocation for an open website (where one has not logged in), and are there really no geolocation systems on serverside that you can use?

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#73

Post by tommorris »

Yaa101 wrote: post #72
tommorris wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be stuff I add to my site that needs scripting. And I may take the scripting out for the login. The posting UI is just for geolocation which you can't do without JS.

Nice for you to reply on my opinion, this tells me to take you serious even though we disagree on things. I do wonder why one needs geolocation for an open website (where one has not logged in), and are there really no geolocation systems on serverside that you can use?

I use geolocation to tag my posts with my location. I'm trying to build my own Foursquare using OpenStreetMap data.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#74

Post by marrs »

macspoofing wrote: post #63
marrs wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The justification is just .. dumb. Arrogant, unnecessary opening. Your reasons had better be good. First because the debate is over. Clearly it isn't. People want to build web apps, and they want to consume web apps. "People" don't want to build anything; it's devs who want to do that. People want to do all kinds of things on the web. Often, they want to spend as little time on your site as possible so they can get b…

>"People" don't want to build anything; it's devs who want to do that. +1 for pedantry. Apparently devs aren't people, they are "people" (or is it the other way around). >People want to do all kinds of things on the web. That's right. They want to do all kinds of things on it. They want to hang out on facebook, check gmail, keep track of twitter feed, write documents in google docs, and upload to flickr. All those "w…

Yes. Try browsing the web without JS enabled for a while and see how many regular sites (not apps) just fail to work. And I don't mean a JS enhancement fails to work; I mean the whole site fails to work, or even load.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#75

Post by davedx »

Chiming in...

Content sites should use progressive enhancement. Sites that are applications (web apps) are probably a better UX if they are client-side/single page apps.

I work in TV at the moment, building TV UI's as single-page JavaScript apps. This just would not be possible server-side, even if the server ran on the head-end.

Choose the right tool for the job, and most of these complaints fall away.

Of course, white listing JavaScript is 100% your prerogative. It's your browser and web experience and it's great that you're free to choose.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#76

Post by bdfh42 »

tommorris wrote: post #8
bdfh42 wrote: post #3

...and frankly this whole "user experience" thing has got completely out of hand. Just what is wrong with sending a stack of punch cards in by post for processing? I just love getting the box of listing paper back with a printed core dump to highlight those little slips in the code or JCL.

You interpreted my drunken rant about the poor user experience of bad client-side scripting as an argument against user experience? Okaaay.

You missed the point of my comment. My point was that you can't turn off an important (nay crucial) element of modern web applications simply because you don't like how some web sites go beyond enhancement into the black pit of defacement.

It has often been pointed out that technologies can be applied for good and bad. Simply ignoring them and hoping that the world will join you within your circle of wagons just will not work. You can't turn the clock back - you can (perhaps) demonstrate the benefit of a more appropriate implementation.

Maybe my contribution was a bit too opaque.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#77

Post by maxerickson »

onion2k wrote: post #4

I'm almost in the same camp as the author. I don't particularly enjoy a lot of the front-end fancy gimmicky that goes on in websites, but at the same time, I do appreciate some of the UX improvements it affords us. Client-side validation makes my life easier, UI elements like sliders and trees are very useful, and so on. What I would like is a middle-ground - NoScript implementation that could switch off JS based on…

I was filling in a form yesterday and the client side validation blocked tab completion. Yay.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#78

Post by tommorris »

bdfh42 wrote: post #76
tommorris wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You interpreted my drunken rant about the poor user experience of bad client-side scripting as an argument against user experience? Okaaay.

You missed the point of my comment. My point was that you can't turn off an important (nay crucial) element of modern web applications simply because you don't like how some web sites go beyond enhancement into the black pit of defacement. It has often been pointed out that technologies can be applied for good and bad. Simply ignoring them and hoping that the world will join you within your circle of wagons just will…

I can turn it off. And I have.

If the positives of JS use outweigh the negatives, congrats, you get on the whitelist. If you annoy the living shit out of me with ten jazillion share buttons, I'll exercise my right to not let you run arbitrary code written in a Turing complete language on my computer.

The world seems to have joined in with Adblock. Keep up the parade of annoying bloat and people will start doing the same with JS.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#79

Post by theorique »

tommorris wrote: post #54
theorique wrote: post #10

(Many/most) Publishers want to be able to monetize and create complicated sales funnels and all that sort of stuff. (Many/most) Web users just want to "read a goddam text document". This tension is unlikely to be resolved. Of course, some useful things on the web truly are 'apps'. Text isn't, and probably never will be.

Adblock solved a lot of previous "tensions". ;)

Agreed!
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