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Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

tommorris.org

21–30 of 79 posts

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#21
post #18

The first thing that would fail is the ability to login to his own site, which uses Mozilla Persona and requires JavaScript. To be fair, I'm very much in favour of reducing the amount that the browser does and to send less stuff to the browser. I'm in favour of Tom's whitelisting approach and I used to believe this was the best way to consume the web. But that was back when most sites still had an idea of gracefully…

> The first thing that would fail is the ability to login to his own site, which uses Mozilla Persona and requires JavaScript.

That's why I'd whitelist my own site. And the only person who that would fail for is me because I'm the only person who can post to my own site. :)

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#22
In case anyone feels like complaining about Persona depending on JavaScript: yes, it is true that it depends on JavaScript at present, but that JavaScript is only a crutch—a polyfill for something which is intended to undergo standardisation and formalisation as core browser functionality. Assuming that happens, Persona-based sites will thus in the end not depend on JavaScript.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#23
post #18

The first thing that would fail is the ability to login to his own site, which uses Mozilla Persona and requires JavaScript. To be fair, I'm very much in favour of reducing the amount that the browser does and to send less stuff to the browser. I'm in favour of Tom's whitelisting approach and I used to believe this was the best way to consume the web. But that was back when most sites still had an idea of gracefully…

> The first thing that would fail is the ability to login to his own site, which uses Mozilla Persona and requires JavaScript. That's why I'd whitelist my own site. And the only person who that would fail for is me because I'm the only person who can post to my own site. :)

Out of curiosity, how is Persona for this use-case?

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm keen on some kind of web of trust for this sort of stuff.

OT: Do you have an email address? My work net filtering is blocking this blog for a bizarre but somewhat troubling reason.

Yep. tom [at] tommorris [dot] org

I've been filtered in the past because of LGBT related content on my site. A friend told me their school filtered it for the stated reason of "advocacy of immoral lifestyles". Which is hilarious.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#25

In case anyone feels like complaining about Persona depending on JavaScript: yes, it is true that it depends on JavaScript at present, but that JavaScript is only a crutch—a polyfill for something which is intended to undergo standardisation and formalisation as core browser functionality. Assuming that happens, Persona-based sites will thus in the end not depend on JavaScript.

I don't think his point was that client-side scripting is bad, just that there is way too much of it and the way some people use it change fundamental functionality.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#27

But there IS a distinction between web site and web app. Blogs, news, forums and the like should not be web apps, they shouldn't use client side rendering and fancy widgets. The Spotify web player however IS a web app, and it would suck tremendously if it wasn't built as such. Can we stop with the black and white reasoning already? Yes, many things that claim to be web apps today shouldn't be, but that doesn't mean t…

Spotify desktop app is awesome. There is no real need for a web app.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first thing that would fail is the ability to login to his own site, which uses Mozilla Persona and requires JavaScript. That's why I'd whitelist my own site. And the only person who that would fail for is me because I'm the only person who can post to my own site. :)

Out of curiosity, how is Persona for this use-case?

Works great. I chose it because (a) I couldn't be arsed to write a username/password setup and (b) using things like Facebook/Twitter requires an API key and I can't be bothered.

Optimizing for laziness, Persona sort of won out.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#29

I am much of the same mind as the author, and for a very long time my NoScript was configured to disallow all JS by default. Sadly things have reached the point where this is just not realistic anymore. Too many websites just fail to work altogether, and I was spending way too much time whitelisting sites. And honestly, who has the time to check up on what each and every one of those is doing with their crappy JavaSc…

> Sadly things have reached the point where this is just not realistic anymore. Too many websites just fail to work altogether, and I was spending way too much time whitelisting sites.

I have a very simple solution to this: website breaks and has no legitimate reason for using scripts? Good bye website. I don't do web development, so worst case scenario is website breaks so I get my ass back to work sooner.

I know one person is too little to make a difference, but I don't care. I'll stick to it for as long as I can, and continue to deprieve the owners of such badly designed websites of any revenue from my side.

It's the same with any media, really. I sift through a book and find it's badly printed and barely readable? I don't buy it. For instance, it's stuff like this that gets on my nerves:

> Thanks to frameworks like Angular and Backbone, you can build applications that contain no data in the HTML document at all. Hypertext without any actual hypertext.

If there is no hypertext in your application, why the fuck are you using a hypertext protocol in the first place? Just like I wouldn't buy an electric car that requires me to purchase gasoline just because, you know, it's a car, so you need to buy gasoline with it, even if you don't use it (because the motor doesn't run on gasoline!), I simply don't use an application that runs on top of HTTP, but has no, um, HT.

Edit: I do think there's a lot of strength in the crowd here. 90% of the websites that break with disabled JS break because of poor/lazy programmers or because of script abuse, that's trying to siphon as much data as possible. If users demanded a minimum level of quality from the WWW and refused anything below them, the designers and website owners would eventually have to cope.

Unfortunately, the Internet literacy of most Internet users is basically inexistent, so there is little to build upon when asking for quality standards.

Re: Why I'm turning JavaScript off by default

#30
post #3

...and frankly this whole "user experience" thing has got completely out of hand. Just what is wrong with sending a stack of punch cards in by post for processing? I just love getting the box of listing paper back with a printed core dump to highlight those little slips in the code or JCL.

JavaScript (as it is used in practice) often results in worse "user experience": just as the author writes.
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