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The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

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51–60 of 211 posts

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#51
post #46

If the suffering of animals matters, then eating meat is morally wrong. Animals are non-human persons who are aware of their own existence and who feel a wide range of emotions, just like we do. Killing animals may still be acceptable in western society, but it's wrong. It's wrong just as slavery in the United States in the 18th and 19th century was once acceptable but wrong. Just as hanging, drawing and quartering t…

I am aware that we are causing pain to animals. But eating meat gives me so much happiness that I am not willing to live without it.

Totally tangential point:

I sometimes draw an analogy between veganism and the extreme anti-force / volitionalist stance of radical libertarians. In both cases is may be radically moral, but the problem with the libertarian case is similar to what you just said.

Government force is just so easy. Is there some systemic social ill that manifests in an emergent fashion from the market? Pass a law and force it to change. Wealth redistribution by force improves the lives of the vast majority of people too.

There may be force-free alternatives to these mechanisms, but it's clear that if they exist they are more difficult. Thus most people are willing to sacrifice some of their (and their neighbors) freedom and autonomy for free health care, free retirement, easy fixes to emergent problems and tragedies of the commons, etc.

I can't say I'm different. I would prefer to have a "softened" market in which some wealth is redistributed by force to me and my middle class contemporaries (as well as to those less fortunate than me) even if it is less moral according to a radical moral theory.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#52
I tried to eat only expensive meat to reduce the chances that the animals it comes from are bred in conditions such as those described in the article. The idea was that naturally this would reduce the amount of meat I ate as the cost of the meal went up.

Found it wasn't possible.

- There were no expensive ready meal options at my local supermarket - Labeling contains no information about what kind of environment animals are brought up in

Solution: - Enforce labeling about environment animals are kept in - More NGOs need to take initiative to make it easier to access information - e.g. packaging should tell me name of factory meat was made in. I should be able to go online and view (ideally) live webcams for welfare and if not at least periodic photos of all areas where animals are 'processed'

Ultimately I wish I had the will power to turn fully vegetarian but my issue isn't with eating meat as such - more that I don't want to be a part of any operation that kills animals en masse and I hate words like 'processed' being associated with my food and live animals.

Working post, feel free to build on it.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#53
How do you know there are vegans on HN? Post anything about eating critters or dietary subjects.

I'm about 1 more story from just flagging these from HN because the discourse on these subjects is as predictable and brain dead as a Daring Fireball discussion.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#54
post #31

A couple of years ago I moved to the Yukon and had the opportunity to go Moose hunting. I really didn't know if I'd be OK with killing such a large animal and "getting down to it" and have found to experience to be quite powerful. There is a lot of respect for the animal and we treat every square centimeter of edible meat with the utmost care. It's quite a strange sensation to be working so hard (it's extremely heavy…

I really wish more people who eat meat would put themselves in a position to experience this. It's awesome that you took away so much respect for the animal and the process. I'd love to see that kind of awareness at scale. (full disclosure: I'm vegan)

Q: How do you know if someone is a vegan?

A: THEY'LL TELL YOU.

(full disclosure: married to a vegan, I couldn't resist)

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about worst case, best case or average case. The fact that in all cases, animals are born (without choice) into captivity, for the purpose of having their life exploited or ended, is one of the most compelling reasons you should consider your consumption of meat and whether it's really worth it.

That's what you think "it's about". The article was not making a judgement that raising animals for slaughter is wrong.

You might want to note that I was replying to a comment, and not the website.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#57
post #31

A couple of years ago I moved to the Yukon and had the opportunity to go Moose hunting. I really didn't know if I'd be OK with killing such a large animal and "getting down to it" and have found to experience to be quite powerful. There is a lot of respect for the animal and we treat every square centimeter of edible meat with the utmost care. It's quite a strange sensation to be working so hard (it's extremely heavy…

This has been my experience almost exactly (s/Yukon/Alberta/). I now hunt yearly and basically don't any meat that I didn't kill myself. One deer is enough for a couple for a year.

I found the experience it very self-illuminating, the hypocrisy of will-not-kill-but-will-eat-from-store became much more focused.

The experience of hunting wildly varies. I've had one or two gut-wrenching bad shots, hitting the animal in the leg then having to track it down and end it. Most of the time, the animal is dead before the sound of the shot reaches them, before which they were blissfully grazing.

Regardless of the experience, you reflect on what you've just done far more than when you buy meat on a shelf.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#58

If the suffering of animals matters, then eating meat is morally wrong. Animals are non-human persons who are aware of their own existence and who feel a wide range of emotions, just like we do. Killing animals may still be acceptable in western society, but it's wrong. It's wrong just as slavery in the United States in the 18th and 19th century was once acceptable but wrong. Just as hanging, drawing and quartering t…

So is there no middle ground then? Is it a simple case of you can't have one without another? I believe that you can eat meat, provided that animals live in a decent,stress-free environment. I know it's very hard to find meat that carries any sort of a guarantee on it,but at least here in EU "free range" and "organic" mean something that is legally enforceable, so every time I buy chicken/beef/pork that is organic I…

No, there's no middle ground. Killing is killing.

Would it be moral to kill you if I'd let you live in a decent, stress-free environment before your death?

Would it be moral to raise human children, give them a nice childhood and then kill them before they reach adulthood because they're super tasty then?

I'm not saying I agree (or don't) with GP, just noting that you missed his point.

Re: The Price We Pay for Cheap Meat

#59
post #46

If the suffering of animals matters, then eating meat is morally wrong. Animals are non-human persons who are aware of their own existence and who feel a wide range of emotions, just like we do. Killing animals may still be acceptable in western society, but it's wrong. It's wrong just as slavery in the United States in the 18th and 19th century was once acceptable but wrong. Just as hanging, drawing and quartering t…

I am aware that we are causing pain to animals. But eating meat gives me so much happiness that I am not willing to live without it.

This is a good reply to the argument that I hear used a lot:

"You just need to educate yourself. Read this website and watch this video: you'll never want to eat meat again!"

What if I'm educated, have read the books, the websites, and still choose meat?

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