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President Obama calls on every American to learn code

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Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#91

Post by oracuk »

pvnick wrote: post #73

I frequently disagree with the president, but he really hit the nail on the head with this one. I've been saying for a while now, if we were to replace high school and college foreign language requirements with a computer programming language class, you would propel America way ahead of everyone else (more-so than now) in terms of industry and innovation, and do wonders for the economy, all within a decade. Think abo…

There are a couple of assumptions built into your proposal that I would want to see some data to support:

1: Computer programming competes with foreign languages in high schools and colleges.

2: The economic value of programming languages is greater than the economic value of foreign languages.

Your last sentence also suggests you are comparing apples and oranges, a grade of a foreign language that is dropped against achieving basic computer programming abilities. These are not the same level of achievement.

I think understanding computation is a key 21st century skill that we would do well to invest in but I think foreign languages also have value.

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#92

Post by LionRoar »

I went to the code.org site, looked around and tried the objective-C version. I was (positively) surprised that it did work because I am not in the USA at the moment, meaning it's not blocked for non-USA access.

The simulator didn't work unfortunately but they did warn about this on the site when I started. After I had done the tutorial I landed on the Summer Academy page where you can do a 8-9 week course in programming. Very nice!

Then I discovered that this was certainly not for free: $5000 it will cost you. I must admit I was a little shocked. That is not a price every one can pay for this learning to code adventure. That was a part Obama did not mention. It feels like a standard marketing trap, luring in people to do your course, buy your software, etc. Only difference is the frontman of the show ;)

It's proved again: there is no such thing as a free lunch. Now walk on please, nothing to see here.

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#93

Post by hga »

JonFish85 wrote: post #59

While I agree that it's a great mental exercise to learn how to code (and to learn the mindset that goes along with it), isn't it much more important for every American to learn how to budget? To learn how to save money? To me, those are things that are far more important to the country as a whole than understanding even basic scripting. As a quick example, the meaning of "afford" has changed in the last 2 generation…

Isn't that a rather ... subversive concept when a good fraction of those learning it will then apply it to the Federal budget, their state's budget and on down?

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#94

Post by Crito »

eru wrote: post #43
kamjam wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. How many of those making laws right now know anything about technology let alone how to code? So why does Joe Public specifically need to know how to code? It would be much better to teach people math and proper grammar, that would get them much further in life.

What do you mean by proper grammar? Stuff like using "you and me" correctly and not falling into the "you and I" prestige English trap? People acquire proper grammar naturally with their native language.

Proper grammar, for practical purposes, should be defined as "is capable of talking in a way that will not put them at a disadvantage in job interviews". Use of the the word "ain't" probably isn't worth worrying about; stunted vocabulary and inability to match tenses probably is.

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#96

Post by hga »

humanrebar wrote: post #25
gum_ina_package wrote: post #16

Maybe if everyone knew how to code, we could fix healthcare.gov.

I am under the impression that this was a project management failure, not a technical failure.

You are correct. Political and bureaucratic types with no experience in building big systems called the shots until the 3rd week or so of October, and were making major change orders in August, and other changes in the week before launch. And no single manager had it as his personal, full time responsibility (although in fairness, it just occurred to me that anyone savvy in HHS would have avoided such a position like the plague). The infrastructure was grossly under-provisioned, and when the general contractor/integrator including integration testing, HHS's CMS (now "fired" and replaced by the private QSSI) finally did integration testing in the couple of weeks before launch it failed hard. But somehow, in best waterfall in practice tradition, that had no effect on the decision to launch.

As I like to say, no Google/Facebook/Lisper dream team could have possibly succeeded given the top down constraints. I can't even see a lot of the contractors putting in their best effort when they had to throw away so much work so often....

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#97

Post by kamjam »

Crito wrote: post #94
eru wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by proper grammar? Stuff like using "you and me" correctly and not falling into the "you and I" prestige English trap? People acquire proper grammar naturally with their native language.

Proper grammar, for practical purposes, should be defined as "is capable of talking in a way that will not put them at a disadvantage in job interviews" . Use of the the word "ain't" probably isn't worth worrying about; stunted vocabulary and inability to match tenses probably is.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. I'm not pedantic enough about the "you and me" stuff, or even fully correct in my own punctuation and I'm a native English speaker. But knowing the difference between "there, their and they're" is very important for example.

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#98

Post by hga »

Hmmm, I wonder what this says about the iOS ecosystem, where programming on your device is strictly verboten Even former Apple Fellow Alan Kay, chosen by Steve Jobs way back when, couldn't get a suitable for children version of Smalltalk approved. The Gambit-C Scheme crew got their's approved, and then banned.

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#99

Post by hdevalence »

Crito wrote: post #86
jmduke wrote: post #21

A lot of people are getting attached to the "every American" aspect of things, and I think its important to note the distance between "knowing how to code" and "becoming a programmer." Amateur programming (for lack of a better term) like basic Python for data analysis or HTML/CSS to work on Wordpress sites (Hell, one of my friends who's a Social Media Manager learned Python to create some QoL scripts for her day-to-d…

> Every American should probably be able to change a tire. That doesn't mean every American should be a car mechanic. I agree with that entirely, and a similar "fix a flat" knowledge of computers should also be expected. What perplexes me is that "learn computers" is a popular thing to advocate, but I have never heard of the president asking Americans to learn their way around their car.

Candidate Obama did, pointing out that maintaining adequate tire pressure would obviate the need for more drilling.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2008/08/obama-pushes-ba...

Re: President Obama calls on every American to learn code

#100

Post by qq66 »

Crito wrote: post #86
jmduke wrote: post #21

A lot of people are getting attached to the "every American" aspect of things, and I think its important to note the distance between "knowing how to code" and "becoming a programmer." Amateur programming (for lack of a better term) like basic Python for data analysis or HTML/CSS to work on Wordpress sites (Hell, one of my friends who's a Social Media Manager learned Python to create some QoL scripts for her day-to-d…

> Every American should probably be able to change a tire. That doesn't mean every American should be a car mechanic. I agree with that entirely, and a similar "fix a flat" knowledge of computers should also be expected. What perplexes me is that "learn computers" is a popular thing to advocate, but I have never heard of the president asking Americans to learn their way around their car.

That's because car knowledge, at least for men until 20-30 years ago, was the kind of knowledge that fathers passed onto their sons voluntarily, without needing a presidential exhortation.
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