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Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

channelregister.co.uk

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Re: Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

#21

Post by rdl »

lsc wrote: post #10
rdl wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd take the $2k vs. working at Zappos, or does the money have to be a material amount? I don't think I'd walk away from Tesla or SpaceX for $100k. (I might walk from Tesla for "a Model S", IFF I thought I could still go back a few months later, but that's just gaming the system.)

I would /pay/ $2k to avoid working customer support for zappos. I'd pay rather more than that, in fact. Have you worked phone support? I only did so for a month, and it was probably the least pleasant job I've ever had.

True, true. I had a job where I essentially did nothing but customer support. It was actually pretty fun doing "field" support, and I like doing high-level support (remote, even; pre-sales is more interesting, but "fix this actual bug no one understands" is cool too), but doing first line phone support was hell. It was funny that the company was paying me $absurd but viewed it as "sunk cost" so something a $50-100k/yr person could have easily done became also my job description at times.

Working for Zappos, at least based on their offices and culture, also appears to be a unique form of hell, but those attracted to the company probably would like it.

Re: Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

#22

Post by lsc »

jedberg wrote: post #18
mikeash wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one way to put it. Another way to put it would be that they are someone who understands their value and understands that their own personal identity and success in not tied into that of their employer, and that an employer who doesn't want to pay competitively won't have a mission worth believing in anyway. Either way, of course, you can see why a company might want to get rid of that type of person.

Why would taking this deal imply you aren't getting paid competitively?

Because it's a layoff. Even when done right, when the company lays off people in the bottom 25%, there's still just as much work and fewer hands to do it; If you aren't cut in the first round of layoffs, you will end up working much harder than you were working before the layoffs.

Usually, layoffs also imply that the company is in poor financial health. Companies in poor financial health tend to be stingy with raises and bonuses.

I would argue that because they are doing layoffs wrong, they are very likely going to endure even worse times; It implies they have unskilled management, and they've got to get along now without the employees who had other options who were encouraged (!) to jump ship before things got really bad.

Few things are quite as frustrating as putting in heroic hours only to watch that work be wasted because your management isn't very good.

If you thought you had to work more after the first round of layoffs, boy howdy; after round two, you might as well park your cot in the office. Worse, in round 2 and 3 the severance packages get smaller and smaller.

Re: Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

#23

Post by alan_cx »

jedberg wrote: post #5
lsc wrote: post #3

the first rule of employment: If someone offers you free money to leave? you take it.

You're exactly the kind of person they are trying to get to leave -- someone who is only in it for the money and doesn't believe in the mission.

LOL. Mission? Believe?

Is Dell a religion or a mere money making entity which works, rightly, to enrich a few owners / share holders?

Look, I like Dell. A supplier of choice for me. Always been good to do business with. I would recommend them in many cases. But come on, its a business, not a not for profit, humanitarian, charity. All this "mission", "believe" stuff is just fantasy BS to make people work harder to make the owner more money. The only question for an employee, in this regard, is: does it give me what I want or need right now? If so, then work, and work hard for your money. If not, then bugger off.

Then, the very idea that its OK for a business to be in it for the money, which is what a business is, yet that its wrong for an employee, is frankly hypocritical BS. Any one who falls for this business BS is a simpleton mug.

If you want people to actually care about the business, give them a cut of the action related to profit. Because profit is the only think that matters. No profit, no point.

Re: Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

#24

Post by lsc »

tspiteri wrote: post #19
lsc wrote: post #3

the first rule of employment: If someone offers you free money to leave? you take it.

Only if you can get another job easily. And I don't think this scheme is meant for those people, those people may very well be excluded from the scheme altogether.

>Only if you can get another job easily.

Maybe. If you can't get another job, that implies you are getting paid above-market wages.

If the company is in trouble and you are getting paid above market wages, how many more months is it going to be before they ask you to leave without a nice severance package?

Re: Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

#25

Post by alan_cx »

Why not a wedge of cash to stay? That's what happened in one business I worked in but got bought out like this.

We got told things would change, they needed our co-operation, it would mean possibly working a bit harder and getting used to new practices. So, here's a lump sum.

BTW, only a very small number took the money and left afterwards. Problem they had was that in the industry, the deal was well known. Apparently interviews for some other firms in the same sector were awkward. "So, Mr Smith, you took the hand out a month ago, but here you are interviewing for us. Please tell us your opinions on loyalty?"

Re: Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

#26

Post by rayiner »

alan_cx wrote: post #23
jedberg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're exactly the kind of person they are trying to get to leave -- someone who is only in it for the money and doesn't believe in the mission.

LOL. Mission? Believe? Is Dell a religion or a mere money making entity which works, rightly , to enrich a few owners / share holders? Look, I like Dell. A supplier of choice for me. Always been good to do business with. I would recommend them in many cases. But come on, its a business, not a not for profit, humanitarian, charity. All this "mission", "believe" stuff is just fantasy BS to make people work harder to ma…

> If you want people to actually care about the business, give them a cut of the action related to profit. Because profit is the only think that matters. No profit, no point.

Hear hear.

Re: Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

#27

Post by rayiner »

lsc wrote: post #22
jedberg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would taking this deal imply you aren't getting paid competitively?

Because it's a layoff. Even when done right, when the company lays off people in the bottom 25%, there's still just as much work and fewer hands to do it; If you aren't cut in the first round of layoffs, you will end up working much harder than you were working before the layoffs. Usually, layoffs also imply that the company is in poor financial health. Companies in poor financial health tend to be stingy with raises…

> If you thought you had to work more after the first round of layoffs, boy howdy; after round two, you might as well park your cot in the office. Worse, in round 2 and 3 the severance packages get smaller and smaller.

Because the people who are left are stupider and more desperate for a job.

Re: Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

#28

Post by wsc981 »

RougeFemme wrote: post #20
lsc wrote: post #3

the first rule of employment: If someone offers you free money to leave? you take it.

Well, note who is explicitly excluded from the buyout: "People working in the Software Group will not be allowed to join VSP, neither will folk with vice president in their title, nor exec/ distinguished directors in engineering or employees in India or Singapore." I don't know who's included in the Software Group, but it probably includes a lot of people like those who read HN. I once worked for a company where buyo…

I wonder, does this mean software engineers are too valuable to let go so easily? Or would there be some other train of thought.

Re: Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

#29

Post by lsc »

rayiner wrote: post #27
lsc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a layoff. Even when done right, when the company lays off people in the bottom 25%, there's still just as much work and fewer hands to do it; If you aren't cut in the first round of layoffs, you will end up working much harder than you were working before the layoffs. Usually, layoffs also imply that the company is in poor financial health. Companies in poor financial health tend to be stingy with raises…

> If you thought you had to work more after the first round of layoffs, boy howdy; after round two, you might as well park your cot in the office. Worse, in round 2 and 3 the severance packages get smaller and smaller. Because the people who are left are stupider and more desperate for a job.

>Because the people who are left are stupider and more desperate for a job.

No, it's because by round two and three the company doesn't have as much money and isn't as concerned by the bad press that comes from layoffs without severance. You could say that people /stay/ because they are desperate for a job.

Re: Dell tells staff: If you haven't got stomach for private era, leave

#30

Post by hkmurakami »

RougeFemme wrote: post #20
lsc wrote: post #3

the first rule of employment: If someone offers you free money to leave? you take it.

Well, note who is explicitly excluded from the buyout: "People working in the Software Group will not be allowed to join VSP, neither will folk with vice president in their title, nor exec/ distinguished directors in engineering or employees in India or Singapore." I don't know who's included in the Software Group, but it probably includes a lot of people like those who read HN. I once worked for a company where buyo…

Honestly, the "don't have the stomach for the private era" sounds completely hollow to me. This just looks like a generic cull that tries to masquerade as something else.
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