An open letter from Carl Bernstein to Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger • Hacker News Board

Re: An open letter from Carl Bernstein to Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger

#11

Post by booyaa00 » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 8:52 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #7

booyaa00 wrote: post #5

I know this will be unpopular here, but personally, I would like to see the Guardian prosecuted for its reckless reporting of stolen information in the same way that phone hacking was dealt with. You can't just steal documents from governments and publish them without any consequences. If your government is doing something bad, then it should be dealt with legally, and via the established checks and balances. Newspap…

You can't just steal documents from governments and publish them without any consequences. Erm, why ? What's your reasoning here beyond "but the laaaaaaw"? Do you even have any moral reasoning backing that?

So you'd be fine with someone stealing data the government holds on your, say your medical records, and publishing them on the front page would you?

Maybe your last few tax returns. May as well publish those as well!

How about state secrets on any weak parts of military defences?

Yes I have moral reasoning. It's stolen information.

Re: An open letter from Carl Bernstein to Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger

#12

Post by corin_ » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 8:52 PM UTC

larrys wrote: post #4

danso wrote: post #3

I like Carl, maybe because I also prefer Dustin Hoffman over Robert Redford (who played Woodward)...but this letter, and also how he's decided to teach journalism at a public instead of prestigious private college, makes me think he's a real standup guy as well as one of our most famous investigative reporters. http://nypost.com/2013/09/19/iconic-journalist-carl-bernstei... > “I didn’t want to go to an Ivy League col…

Oh please. As if everyone going to an IVY League (or similar) school is there because of legacy or earning power of their parents? "that had more young people who were not there by virtue of legacy or earning power of their parents" I think that's a huge leap. Not only that but the IVY League schools have a large number of students that are there on scholarship and are given a great opportunity. Harvard (as only one…

You've given as little data to your claim as he did to his. Maybe he said that just to seem noble, or maybe he actually looked into the numbers and is speaking the truth. Without looking those numbers up yourself your comment is just guesswork.

Re: An open letter from Carl Bernstein to Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger

#13

Post by jblow » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 8:53 PM UTC

booyaa00 wrote: post #5

I know this will be unpopular here, but personally, I would like to see the Guardian prosecuted for its reckless reporting of stolen information in the same way that phone hacking was dealt with. You can't just steal documents from governments and publish them without any consequences. If your government is doing something bad, then it should be dealt with legally, and via the established checks and balances. Newspap…

How are you supposed to deal legally with your government doing something bad, when it is illegal for you to know about the bad things?

Just think about your proposition for even ten seconds.

Re: An open letter from Carl Bernstein to Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger

#14

Post by booyaa00 » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 8:54 PM UTC

MarcScott wrote: post #9

booyaa00 wrote: post #5

I know this will be unpopular here, but personally, I would like to see the Guardian prosecuted for its reckless reporting of stolen information in the same way that phone hacking was dealt with. You can't just steal documents from governments and publish them without any consequences. If your government is doing something bad, then it should be dealt with legally, and via the established checks and balances. Newspap…

Why do you feel their reporting is "reckless"? Do you believe that the Guardian's reporting has reduced GCHQ's ability to protect UK citizens? If so, do you have any evidence to support this belief?

Yes I do believe that, and it's what the heads of GCHQ MI5 etc told the government when they were asked that question.

Re: An open letter from Carl Bernstein to Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger

#15

Post by booyaa00 » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 8:55 PM UTC

jblow wrote: post #13

booyaa00 wrote: post #5

I know this will be unpopular here, but personally, I would like to see the Guardian prosecuted for its reckless reporting of stolen information in the same way that phone hacking was dealt with. You can't just steal documents from governments and publish them without any consequences. If your government is doing something bad, then it should be dealt with legally, and via the established checks and balances. Newspap…

How are you supposed to deal legally with your government doing something bad, when it is illegal for you to know about the bad things? Just think about your proposition for even ten seconds.

Just think about your proposition for ten seconds.

You're suggesting that the entire government is corrupt, and covering up 'something bad'?

There are endless systems of checks, balances, and disclosure within our government.

Sorry, I don't buy the conspiracy theories, endless theoretical debates about what the government "could" do with data it has. It's moot.

Re: An open letter from Carl Bernstein to Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger

#16

Post by lifeisstillgood » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 8:57 PM UTC

booyaa00 wrote: post #11

angersock wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just steal documents from governments and publish them without any consequences. Erm, why ? What's your reasoning here beyond "but the laaaaaaw"? Do you even have any moral reasoning backing that?

So you'd be fine with someone stealing data the government holds on your, say your medical records, and publishing them on the front page would you? Maybe your last few tax returns. May as well publish those as well! How about state secrets on any weak parts of military defences? Yes I have moral reasoning. It's stolen information.

There is a reason we have a public interest defence - the Guardian believes that it is in the public interest that these documents and their implications are made public, discussed and changes made to our security services.

I agree, but I see why others do not - but I ask you, how would we have the debate without the leaks and without the defence? If there is a way, please tell me.

Re: An open letter from Carl Bernstein to Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger

#17

Post by booyaa00 » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 8:57 PM UTC

egocodedinsol wrote: post #8

booyaa00 wrote: post #5

I know this will be unpopular here, but personally, I would like to see the Guardian prosecuted for its reckless reporting of stolen information in the same way that phone hacking was dealt with. You can't just steal documents from governments and publish them without any consequences. If your government is doing something bad, then it should be dealt with legally, and via the established checks and balances. Newspap…

booyaa00: I think it's also funny that some people are under the delusion that sites like this and reddit, are actually controlled by the 'voters', and that everyone has the same power. They're not. They're controlled by editors who will place items where they want to. For me, the worst part of hacker news is the silent banning if you are critical of any YC funded startup. Censorship is ugly, but it happens routinely…

No. It's totally different.

This is not about censorship. Newspapers can say what the hell they want. Unless they obtained that information via illegal means - which The Guardian did.

They are absolutely the same as the phone hacking papers.

Re: An open letter from Carl Bernstein to Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger

#18

Post by jckt » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 8:57 PM UTC

larrys wrote: post #4

danso wrote: post #3

I like Carl, maybe because I also prefer Dustin Hoffman over Robert Redford (who played Woodward)...but this letter, and also how he's decided to teach journalism at a public instead of prestigious private college, makes me think he's a real standup guy as well as one of our most famous investigative reporters. http://nypost.com/2013/09/19/iconic-journalist-carl-bernstei... > “I didn’t want to go to an Ivy League col…

Oh please. As if everyone going to an IVY League (or similar) school is there because of legacy or earning power of their parents? "that had more young people who were not there by virtue of legacy or earning power of their parents" I think that's a huge leap. Not only that but the IVY League schools have a large number of students that are there on scholarship and are given a great opportunity. Harvard (as only one…

He said more people in Ivies are there because of legacy/earning power of parents, relative to the average school (which I think is a rather uncontroversial point). He didn't say everyone, which is what you're saying.

Re: An open letter from Carl Bernstein to Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger

#19

Post by grey-area » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 8:58 PM UTC

booyaa00 wrote: post #5

I know this will be unpopular here, but personally, I would like to see the Guardian prosecuted for its reckless reporting of stolen information in the same way that phone hacking was dealt with. You can't just steal documents from governments and publish them without any consequences. If your government is doing something bad, then it should be dealt with legally, and via the established checks and balances. Newspap…

The guardian didn't steal documents.

The fourth estate is part of the established checks and balances you mention, in fact it's the most important and independent part.

Re: An open letter from Carl Bernstein to Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger

#20

Post by desas » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 8:58 PM UTC

booyaa00 wrote: post #15

jblow wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you supposed to deal legally with your government doing something bad, when it is illegal for you to know about the bad things? Just think about your proposition for even ten seconds.

Just think about your proposition for ten seconds. You're suggesting that the entire government is corrupt, and covering up 'something bad'? There are endless systems of checks, balances, and disclosure within our government. Sorry, I don't buy the conspiracy theories, endless theoretical debates about what the government "could" do with data it has. It's moot.

A large, perhaps majority, of the government, didn't know what was happening.