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A CNN Viewer Has Questions for Mike Rowe

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Re: A CNN Viewer Has Questions for Mike Rowe

#21

Post by macinjosh »

ryandrake wrote: post #11
protomyth wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He mentions the data several times, go look at the US Labor stats. Infrastructure jobs are open and we don't have the skilled workers to fill them. ND is importing welders from Canada while road work on the eastern side of the state gets delayed. ND has stats on that too. Some jobs cannot be outsourced. [edit: skilled workers are need more in infrastructure / construction then factories]

"Number of available jobs" is a meaningless statistic. HN-ready example: I'd like to do a web start-up, if only I could find skilled engineers. I'm willing to pay 100 experienced, skilled Java programmers $10/hr to build the site. What? No takers? Not one?? Well, there you go! 100 jobs unfilled. Skills gap! You can't offer poverty-level wages for skilled jobs, then complain that "we don't have the skilled workers" wh…

That argument is a bit disingenuous if you ask me.

A company that legitimately needs worker would be forced to raise their offered wages until they can find employees or would be forced to go out of business.

I think the problem is that society has told young people that if they have a 4-year degree they should be making mid to high wages right out of school just because they have a degree. In the real world employers need people with skills not people with a piece of paper.

If you were to learn a skill right out of high-school you could live off of $10 to $12 per hour for a few years while you live with parents or roommates and overtime as your skills improve you should be able to earn much more and become independent. But no people would rather goof off at university for four years and have their high wages handed to them.

Re: A CNN Viewer Has Questions for Mike Rowe

#23

Post by quaunaut »

> Think about it. Universities get to decide how much money to charge their students. Likewise, parents and students decide if they can afford to pay it. It’s a pretty simple proposition. But when the government suddenly makes hundreds of billions of dollars in student loans readily available — under the popular (and voter-friendly) theory that “everyone should go to college” — we see an unintended consequence.

Well that's also ignoring the point that colleges used to get the majority of their funding from States, and almost every major University now has the majority(and sometimes a >90% majority) of its funding coming from other sources. College used to be subsidized by society, and now it just isn't subsidized, and in his argument that entire position is ignored.

Like most subjects this is a much more complex problem than either side lets on, but just because Mike Rowe is eloquent in his response doesn't mean that it isn't ignoring rather large portions of the facts.

Re: A CNN Viewer Has Questions for Mike Rowe

#24

Post by quepasa »

It's very telling how Rowe comments on how workers wanting more for less is the human condition, but then never considers the same about employers.

One example he gives is of one employer who doesn't want employees with a union mind set. He also cites a "success" where a guy got good pay for working 60 hours per week. What could this mean? He doesn't want workers who want good benefits and overtime pay? I bet the $50k/year job he brings up expects 60 hours per week under physically demanding conditions without time and a half and pretty and weak benefits. If you make $15/hour and work 60 hours per week you start getting really close to $50k/year.

Re: A CNN Viewer Has Questions for Mike Rowe

#25

Post by tshaddox »

justin66 wrote: post #5

Couldn't read the whole thing. I might actually agree with her but the questioner is strawman-level superficial and trite.

I can only imagine how frustrated Mike Rowe was answering those questions. It's a shame he's too tactful to scream "Maybe if you stop blaming literally everything on the political party you weren't raised as, you could spend a minute focusing on real ideas for solving problems!"

Re: A CNN Viewer Has Questions for Mike Rowe

#28

Post by pachydermic »

quaunaut wrote: post #23

> Think about it. Universities get to decide how much money to charge their students. Likewise, parents and students decide if they can afford to pay it. It’s a pretty simple proposition. But when the government suddenly makes hundreds of billions of dollars in student loans readily available — under the popular (and voter-friendly) theory that “everyone should go to college” — we see an unintended consequence. Well…

Also, because the US has an increasingly unequal income distribution, that makes a college degree relatively more valuable. In addition to the social-status factor it certainly still seems to pay off despite the increased tuition (http://priceonomics.com/is-college-worth-it/).

My point is simply that maybe college costs so much more now because it's just worth it. It used to be that you could still do alright without a college degree, but a ton of manufacturing jobs have moved overseas and there's a ton of downward pressure on peoples' wages who don't have engineering and computer jobs.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that this is the reason why college is so expensive these days, but I think that it's a point which isn't brought up enough.

I think there's a tendency to say: "oh well not everyone can have these high-paying jobs", "college isn't right for everyone", etc. which Rowe also says. Maybe that's true, but we certainly seem to have a shortage of qualified people in this country. Seems to me to be a failure of the educational system and while it makes sense not to saddle yourself with tons of debt for a degree if that degree won't help you pay off the debt, I don't think encouraging people not to get a higher education is a good idea either. Now I'm just rambling - I just wanted to point out that that attitude is a sign that something is wrong.

Re: A CNN Viewer Has Questions for Mike Rowe

#29

Post by wavesounds »

Why doesn't he have these jobs listed on his website? I have 2 friends who are unemployed one with a newborn who would be more then interested in those welding jobs he mentions. Does anyone have more information? Do you have to own your own gear? How much is school? Is there a lot of travel?

Re: A CNN Viewer Has Questions for Mike Rowe

#30

Post by stinkytaco »

macinjosh wrote: post #21
ryandrake wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Number of available jobs" is a meaningless statistic. HN-ready example: I'd like to do a web start-up, if only I could find skilled engineers. I'm willing to pay 100 experienced, skilled Java programmers $10/hr to build the site. What? No takers? Not one?? Well, there you go! 100 jobs unfilled. Skills gap! You can't offer poverty-level wages for skilled jobs, then complain that "we don't have the skilled workers" wh…

That argument is a bit disingenuous if you ask me. A company that legitimately needs worker would be forced to raise their offered wages until they can find employees or would be forced to go out of business. I think the problem is that society has told young people that if they have a 4-year degree they should be making mid to high wages right out of school just because they have a degree. In the real world employer…

I think you might be a wee bit disingenuous as well. There are a few issues with so called "skilled labor" right out of high school:

1. Skilled jobs are hard jobs. They are often limited to men strictly due to the physical ability required (I used to work as a diesel mechanic and it was simply not a job that could be done by most women). This is obviously not universally true: machining, some welding, virtually all engineering can be done by women, but there's still a limiter for lots of jobs.

2. The work is hard. This isn't just an issue of "people preferring to goof off". It's hard labor. Given the choice of going to school and continuing that backbreaking work, I made the (wise) choice to go to school.

3. Because it's hard, it's not work for middle aged people. I live in North Dakota, a state that's attracting a lot of skilled labor right now, and it's predominantly young men because men into their 40s and 50s simply can't do it anymore. We need to consider the long term impacts of a workforce that doesn't extend into their 70s.

4. It's not always work that transfers well. Someone who is a computer programmer might be able to work for a long time and in many places, but a skilled laborer is more limited in their options. A machinist in Seattle when Boeing left? Tough break, move or find something else. Obviously this is true with many careers, and many skilled jobs have greater options (mechanics, some welders, engineers) but a skilled laborer is much more subject to the whims of nature than a white collar worker who's skills might be more transferable.

I think it's as unfair to say young people want to goof off at college as it is to say that companies want to screw over workers. Young people make decisions for lots of reasons and though I agree that the systems in place to help them make those decisions (parents, school counselors, etc.) could advise them better, it's certainly not because they are goof offs who want a free ride.

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