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Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

theguardian.com

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Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#101

Post by rtpg »

ChristianMarks wrote: post #67

Higgs isn't alone in remarking that he would not have had the time today to conduct the kind of work he did in the 1960s. Brian Greene has remarked that today’s grant-driven academia would not have allowed Einstein the luxury of a decade in which to develop his General Theory of Relativity. Eric Weinstein wrote that, "We have spent the last decades inhibiting such socially marginal individuals or chasing them to drop…

> So what is really needed is a startup culture that provides for years of uninterrupted development and focus. (Not to mention a hiring process that actively selects for displaced deviants, but that's another post.)

Years? a lot of great research is done as the culmination of baby steps, and papers can be published at midpoints. Even Einstein, from his patent office published at least 5 papers in 7 years. That's a pretty decent rate considering it wasn't even his fulltime job, and a PhD student working as such would probably be considered proficient(then again, I'm not aware of the paper rate of physicists).

I've met a lot more people in research who would just do nothing without deadlines than hidden geniuses that are hindered by their deadlines. Granted, I've met few geniuses too.

I'm really curious as to what task really requires years of uninterrupted work that cannot be segmented and presented for feedback.

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#102

Post by sampo »

RamiK wrote: post #100
ChristianMarks wrote: post #67

Higgs isn't alone in remarking that he would not have had the time today to conduct the kind of work he did in the 1960s. Brian Greene has remarked that today’s grant-driven academia would not have allowed Einstein the luxury of a decade in which to develop his General Theory of Relativity. Eric Weinstein wrote that, "We have spent the last decades inhibiting such socially marginal individuals or chasing them to drop…

"Brian Greene has remarked that today’s grant-driven academia would not have allowed Einstein the luxury of a decade in which to develop his General Theory of Relativity." Academia has been a force for stagnation well before the 1900s. e.g. Einstein wasn't working in Academia when he released his 1905 General Theory of Relativity paper. He spent 1901-1908 working in the patent office while releasing papers outside of…

> 1905 General Theory of Relativity paper

Special relativity. On general relativity he worked from 1907 to 1915.

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#103

Post by sampo »

rtpg wrote: post #101
ChristianMarks wrote: post #67

Higgs isn't alone in remarking that he would not have had the time today to conduct the kind of work he did in the 1960s. Brian Greene has remarked that today’s grant-driven academia would not have allowed Einstein the luxury of a decade in which to develop his General Theory of Relativity. Eric Weinstein wrote that, "We have spent the last decades inhibiting such socially marginal individuals or chasing them to drop…

> So what is really needed is a startup culture that provides for years of uninterrupted development and focus. (Not to mention a hiring process that actively selects for displaced deviants, but that's another post.) Years? a lot of great research is done as the culmination of baby steps, and papers can be published at midpoints. Even Einstein, from his patent office published at least 5 papers in 7 years. That's a p…

Of Adrew Wiles (of the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem fame), Wikipedia says:

"He dedicated all of his research time to this problem for over 6 years in near-total secrecy, covering up his efforts by releasing prior work in small segments as separate papers."

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#104

Post by insertnickname »

vorg wrote: post #80
avrilkiki wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of TBBT is not to entertain nerds, it's to acclimatize everyone else to the new normal where nerds hold a form of status. In 2013 nerds can be very rich, their fields can be very influential, and their intelligence can be useful to normals. Normals, however, don't understand how to relate to nerds in a post-high school environment. Their previous social training has been to simply ostracize and bully. TBB…

The word nerd doesn't mean nowadays what it meant 20 or 30 yrs ago. It's been appropriated by business sorts as a label so they can pass themselves off as creators of genuine stuff as part of their sales routine. Look at most of the nerds nowadays and ask if these people are really "persons of above average intelligence who don't care about their appearance"? Real nerds tend to use the aspie label nowadays.

>Real nerds tend to use the aspie label nowadays.

What...? That's idiotic... You don't have autism just because you're a "nerd".

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#106

Post by vorg »

insertnickname wrote: post #104
vorg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word nerd doesn't mean nowadays what it meant 20 or 30 yrs ago. It's been appropriated by business sorts as a label so they can pass themselves off as creators of genuine stuff as part of their sales routine. Look at most of the nerds nowadays and ask if these people are really "persons of above average intelligence who don't care about their appearance"? Real nerds tend to use the aspie label nowadays.

>Real nerds tend to use the aspie label nowadays. What...? That's idiotic... You don't have autism just because you're a "nerd".

Aspie is short for Asperger's, which is only a very mild form of autism, not that people calling themselves aspies necessarily have Asperger's syndrone, though some do. Many aspies have appropriated the term, however, because they know the business sorts calling themselves nerds will be repulsed by the term, and won't want to steal it from real aspies anytime soon.

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#107

Post by vorg »

nhebb wrote: post #85
vorg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word nerd doesn't mean nowadays what it meant 20 or 30 yrs ago. It's been appropriated by business sorts as a label so they can pass themselves off as creators of genuine stuff as part of their sales routine. Look at most of the nerds nowadays and ask if these people are really "persons of above average intelligence who don't care about their appearance"? Real nerds tend to use the aspie label nowadays.

The Portlandia Nerd PSA hits on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir3v5yDk9Ws

Didn't know about this show. Like the line "I'm a real nerd. I actually use these glasses to see!"

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#108

Post by vorg »

ChristianMarks wrote: post #67

Higgs isn't alone in remarking that he would not have had the time today to conduct the kind of work he did in the 1960s. Brian Greene has remarked that today’s grant-driven academia would not have allowed Einstein the luxury of a decade in which to develop his General Theory of Relativity. Eric Weinstein wrote that, "We have spent the last decades inhibiting such socially marginal individuals or chasing them to drop…

> So what is really needed is a startup culture that provides for years of uninterrupted development and focus.

Not just startups, but any worthwhile project really. From an interview with Rich Hickey:

"I started [Clojure] while on a sabbatical I had given myself. Not a break from work, but a break to work, as a completely free person. I gave myself leave to do whatever I thought was right, with no regard for what others might think, nor any motivation to profit. In releasing it, I had the normal expectations for a new language—that ten to a hundred people might use it. Maybe I would get some help or code contributions. It has taken off, and subsequently demanded far more time than the sabbatical I planned. So, I’m trying to recoup some of the investment I’ve made. Had it been a financially motivated undertaking, I’m sure Clojure would not exist, but I don’t regret having invested in it."

http://codequarterly.com/2011/rich-hickey/

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#109

Post by eitally »

chubot wrote: post #88
paul wrote: post #3

I feel like the inability to focus for long periods of time is holding back progress in many areas. If we can't even stay away from email for a few days, how can we clear our minds of conventional thinking?

It's a problem, but I think if you really value time, you can make it. I've found that the best way to spend less time on e-mail is to send it very infrequently. I used to send tons of e-mail at work, and that was valuable to me at the time. Now I choose very carefully what to reply to, because every message I send means I will get something in return. It's pretty astoundingly effective. Another strategy is to keep a…

Ability to be successful while functioning like this is wholly dependent on your role and the culture of the company you're working for or leading.

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#110

Post by keithpeter »

rpedela wrote: post #11
cinquemb wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…published fewer than 10 papers after his groundbreaking work, which identified the mechanism by which subatomic material acquires mass, was published in 1964. What are you talking about?

He is asking why only 10 papers in 40+ years. What else was taking up his time? I have the same question.

"What else was taking up his time?"

Critical listening to others, building and being part of a community of practice, developing and challenging research students. Possibly informal communication, although I'm not sure of that. Teaching.

Basically dialogue rather than written papers.

Downvoters: please specify your knowledge and experience in academic research. I know what mine is.

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