Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system • Hacker News Board

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#11

Post by rpedela » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:23 AM UTC

cinquemb wrote: post #4

mattmanser wrote: post #2

I'm a little disappointed that the article didn't address the obvious question. If he didn't publish any papers after that, what did he actually do? The entire article actually seems to undermine his point.

…published fewer than 10 papers after his groundbreaking work, which identified the mechanism by which subatomic material acquires mass, was published in 1964. What are you talking about?

He is asking why only 10 papers in 40+ years. What else was taking up his time? I have the same question.

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#12

Post by antiterra » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:24 AM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #8

Systemic33 wrote: post #6

I loved the ending: "He has never been tempted to buy a television, but was persuaded to watch The Big Bang Theory last year, and said he wasn't impressed." The show is despite what some think, not a celebration of science, but a ridicule of science, and takes the stereotypes to new levels. Edit: I also watch the show, but as the article that GuiA links to mentions, the show wnats you to laugh at the nerds, and not t…

Meh, still funny, and the jokes are often more clever than your typical network fare. EDIT: I love that I get downvoted for saying that I like a show. You guys must be a blast at parties.

Yeah. Really clever jokes like saying "Nintendo 64" then pausing for laughter.

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#13

Post by AimHere » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:26 AM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #2

I'm a little disappointed that the article didn't address the obvious question. If he didn't publish any papers after that, what did he actually do? The entire article actually seems to undermine his point.

He was a professor of physics at Edinburgh University, and he certainly showed up on the campus there. I saw him around, but I don't recall witnessing him doing any work since I didn't study much physics.

I'm guessing what he did was teach classes and supervise graduate students, put out the occasional paper now and again, just like any other professor. Also, his name would allow Edinburgh University to say 'We have that famous Professor Higgs working for OUR Physics department' to any passing Science Funding Authority or Corporate R&D department thinking of handing out a research grant in physics, or to any rich foreign parents looking for somewhere to send their physics-inclined offspring.

I'm sure he was pretty good value for money just for his name alone...

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#14

Post by lutorm » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:27 AM UTC

rpedela wrote: post #11

cinquemb wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…published fewer than 10 papers after his groundbreaking work, which identified the mechanism by which subatomic material acquires mass, was published in 1964. What are you talking about?

He is asking why only 10 papers in 40+ years. What else was taking up his time? I have the same question.

Presumably thinking about things that never resulted in papers because they didn't work out, or else working on those 10. Working for 4 years on a paper isn't out of the question if it's totally original work and one is being super careful. Not that doing that is rewarded these days, which I assume was exactly his point.

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#15

Post by cinquemb » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:29 AM UTC

rpedela wrote: post #11

cinquemb wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…published fewer than 10 papers after his groundbreaking work, which identified the mechanism by which subatomic material acquires mass, was published in 1964. What are you talking about?

He is asking why only 10 papers in 40+ years. What else was taking up his time? I have the same question.

"didn't"… "any" implies none. And wouldn't one be better off being concerned with what is taking up their own time? Higgs probably won't have the same question for you or me…

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#16

Post by privong » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:35 AM UTC

logicallee wrote: post #5

mattmanser wrote: post #2

I'm a little disappointed that the article didn't address the obvious question. If he didn't publish any papers after that, what did he actually do? The entire article actually seems to undermine his point.

who cares? you get tenure for what you did, not for what you're going to do.

... and for the promise of continued production.

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#17

Post by fargolime » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:36 AM UTC

> He doubts a similar breakthrough could be achieved in today's academic culture, because of the expectations on academics to collaborate and keep churning out papers.

The opposite of an Einstein or Higgs. Academia no longer tolerates deep, unconventional thinking. Physics used to be a hobby, now its an industry to be protected from major change. For example, if you have basic knowledge of relativity you can go to http://finbot.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/dark-energy-obviated/ and use the steps there in conjunction with generally accepted equations (from the Usenet Physics FAQ) to see that free objects launched upward from Earth at close to the speed of light must accelerate away from us, solving the big mystery of dark energy. But even assuming this idea is valid it couldn't make it into a respected peer-reviewed journal today. Ideas for hunting dark energy particles, however, would be welcomed, since those could lead to lucrative grants.

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#18

Post by rpedela » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:37 AM UTC

cinquemb wrote: post #15

rpedela wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is asking why only 10 papers in 40+ years. What else was taking up his time? I have the same question.

"didn't"… "any" implies none. And wouldn't one be better off being concerned with what is taking up their own time? Higgs probably won't have the same question for you or me…

Generally yes, but if someone, Higgs in this case, is saying there is something broken with academia's definition of productivity then it begs the question what should that definition be? What was Higgs doing that was more important or more productive than publishing papers? It is a totally fair question given the circumstances.

Had Higgs never said anything then I wouldn't be interested in how he spent his time in the office. Nor would it be appropriate to care.

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#19

Post by cinquemb » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:45 AM UTC

rpedela wrote: post #18

cinquemb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"didn't"… "any" implies none. And wouldn't one be better off being concerned with what is taking up their own time? Higgs probably won't have the same question for you or me…

Generally yes, but if someone, Higgs in this case, is saying there is something broken with academia's definition of productivity then it begs the question what should that definition be? What was Higgs doing that was more important or more productive than publishing papers? It is a totally fair question given the circumstances. Had Higgs never said anything then I wouldn't be interested in how he spent his time in t…

So you're saying because of his experiences with academia and the status he has from his hard work, he needs to help set new goal posts for the masses to pigeon hole themselves into which could resemble the situation in which he says we have today? It is a fair question if you don't expect any answers from him, but from the question itself, it doesn't seem that way. It seems like a question that would be more apt for the self.

Re: Peter Higgs: I wouldn't be productive enough for today's academic system

#20

Post by doorhammer » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:45 AM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #8

Systemic33 wrote: post #6

I loved the ending: "He has never been tempted to buy a television, but was persuaded to watch The Big Bang Theory last year, and said he wasn't impressed." The show is despite what some think, not a celebration of science, but a ridicule of science, and takes the stereotypes to new levels. Edit: I also watch the show, but as the article that GuiA links to mentions, the show wnats you to laugh at the nerds, and not t…

Meh, still funny, and the jokes are often more clever than your typical network fare. EDIT: I love that I get downvoted for saying that I like a show. You guys must be a blast at parties.

I don't watch the show, personally, but it's irritating that everyone has to come down on things like this. People spend their time doing all kinds of crazy things. If it's fun and you enjoy it, then I think that's great. There are worse ways to spend your time.

Apparently, that's not good enough, though. Everyone has to critique how other people enjoy themselves.

I've read books on algorithm analysis and I just excitedly purchased a book on discrete mathematics through haskell. Know what else I've read? The entire Sookie Stackhouse series. So friggin what?

My life was so much easier to live when I decided that it was okay to peacefully allow other people enjoy things that I don't.

(oh yeah, I don't think the parent post was saying bad things; it just seemed like a decent place to say it :) )