Air pollution is one thing the leadership suffers as well. Everyone has to breathe. If the people are poor or suffering in some other way but the leadership is living large then they can ignore the issues. But everyone needs air. At some point they have to deal with it.
Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
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Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#52Is there a level of public outcry regarding the pollution? I realize that criticism may be somewhat muted given the nature of the PRC government, but I can't imagine a city as large and cosmopolitan as Shanghai merely accepting this level of environmental mismanagement. Unfortunately, articles regarding Beijing/Shanghai pollution usually fail to mention public sentiment above the level of brief individual anecdote ("…
> I realize that criticism may be somewhat muted given the nature of the PRC government
There's no shame in calling a spade a spade. You correctly perceive that the brutally authoritarian PRC government both suppresses criticism and whitewashes press coverage of environmental problems in the country.
As an aside, discussions with other westerners about China feels to me like having brunch with a couple where everyone knows the husband is cheating on the wife. The natural inclination is to engage in heroic effort to make things seem normal--to map the dysfunctional couple's relationship dynamics to that of a normal couple, all in order to preserve the all-important pretense.
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#53Air pollution is one thing the leadership suffers as well. Everyone has to breathe. If the people are poor or suffering in some other way but the leadership is living large then they can ignore the issues. But everyone needs air. At some point they have to deal with it.
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Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Speaking as someone who lives in China... The firewall won't bother you (assuming you wish to get around it); it's there for the masses. Any idiot with a US citizenship can get a tourist visa, lasting a year and having only the requirement "visit Hong Kong (or any other non-China location) every three months" (I was unambitious, and got a two-month one). Someone of my acquaintance says he paid a visa-help company $10…
$1000! Crazy laowai. As a data point, my current F visa is 2 years, multi-entry, 90 days and cost the nominal fee plus about $100 for the visa company to drop it off at the consulate. Apparently, the F visa has been re-purposed and there is a new M business visa. Any practical experience with that? [of course, China habitually hassles journalists (Bloomberg) over visas]
I assume China is impossible for someone with a bad peanut allergy? (Gets sick just with a bowl of peanuts in the same room.)
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#55Air pollution is one thing the leadership suffers as well. Everyone has to breathe. If the people are poor or suffering in some other way but the leadership is living large then they can ignore the issues. But everyone needs air. At some point they have to deal with it.
+1. Also applies to western countries riding their moral highhorse - pollution knows no borders. 1/3rd of pollution in LA comes from China.
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#56Pollution is now the No.1 reason rich people migrate out of China, second to Education of their kids. I claim this from experience.
Kind of unfortunate too -- move away, and leave the problem behind. Of course there's no problem with getting out of the polluted area, but there's a problem with just giving up and moving elsewhere, forgetting the pollution exists and not trying to solve it from abroad.
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#57I wonder how this compares to the worst smogs experienced in London and elsewhere before the West got its act together with regard to particulate pollution. Apparently the Great Smog of 1952 killed on the order of 10000 people in just a few days. I'm not sure many young people nowadays realize how horrible the situation was just half a century ago. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_1952
Well for one, that smog in London lasted a week, compared to Shanghai where it is persistent and getting worse.
London suffered from bad smogs almost century before they did anything to them. Great Smog was just one incident.
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
The air pollution levels are similar to living an airport smoking lounge. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-30/beijing-air-akin-to...
EDIT: apparently my post below was predicated on a false assumption, please disregard. That's Beijing, not Shanghai, and I think we can assume that Beijing is at least slightly cleaner than Shanghai, if not by much. According this article[0], Shanghai's level reached 602.5, which, when compared to the data on the graph you linked, is about 75 points higher than Beijing. [0]: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireSt…
Beijing is generally worse more often, partly because they get hit by dust carried from the increasingly large Gobi Desert in addition to all the man-made pollution.
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#59Is there a level of public outcry regarding the pollution? I realize that criticism may be somewhat muted given the nature of the PRC government, but I can't imagine a city as large and cosmopolitan as Shanghai merely accepting this level of environmental mismanagement. Unfortunately, articles regarding Beijing/Shanghai pollution usually fail to mention public sentiment above the level of brief individual anecdote ("…
I mean, the problem is that there's a bit of a cultural difference between Americans circa-Industrial Revolution, and the Chinese now. So saying that the Chinese will stand up and protest isn't necessarily true. I don't want to speak for all Chinese, but from what I've read -- please correct me if I'm wrong -- is that there is more of a culture of deference to authority in China. Compare this to Americans, who have a…
There is constant outcry especially since last year. And protest happens daily in China. It's just that normally people stay on particular issues at hand rather than nebular banners such as "small government" etc, for cultural reasons and the protestors' own safety.
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#60I've seen sci-fi depictions of over-industrialized mega-city scapes, but I never thought I'd actually get to see a picture of one. To call that surreal is an understatement.
sci-fi? It's more like reminder from the history. Rapid industrialization and increase in living standards seems to follow familiar pattern.
Great Smog of London documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkx-2mT1-q4