Evading Airport Security • Hacker News Board

Re: Evading Airport Security

#151

Post by onemanshow33 » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 4:27 AM UTC

BorgHunter wrote: post #96

executive wrote: post #94

what happens if a terrorist tries to open the door or an emergency exit window in-flight?

Absolutely nothing, except maybe panicking some passengers. Planes are pressurized, and the exits all open inward. It's not possible for a human being to overcome that force. http://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/exits/

The odds of someone EVER actually opening the door mid flight are ridiculous. Plus how many people would stop that from happening once they knew was occurring - I know I'd be one of the first people up and trying to get on top of that person to prevent that from happening - and I know I'm not alone on that thought.

Re: Evading Airport Security

#152

Post by derleth » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 4:29 AM UTC

rsync wrote: post #150

aestra wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

9/11 was different. People cooperated because that was protocol at the time for a plane hijacking. Nobody expected them to use the plane as a weapon with no regard to their own lives. This was an unprecedented attack. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_hijacking "Before the September 11, 2001 attacks, most hijackings involved the plane landing at a certain destination, followed by the hijackers making negotiable d…

"Nobody expected them to use the plane as a weapon" Nobody ... except for Tom Clancy and every single person who read _Debt of Honor_, wherein a plane is used as a suicide weapon flown into the US capital building.

> Nobody ... except for Tom Clancy and every single person who read _Debt of Honor_, wherein a plane is used as a suicide weapon flown into the US capital building.

Which is almost how Samuel Byck planned to assassinate Richard Nixon. The difference is that Byck planned to fly into the White House. (No, they're not the same building. Many people are confused on this point.)

He utterly failed in his attempt to hijack the airliner (hint: don't attempt a hijacking while the plane is still on the ground unless you know how to get a plane airborne), however, and Byck killed himself before the police got to him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Byck

Anyway, movie-plot threats only very rarely come to pass. There are thousands of potential threats of this nature for every attempt, and the ratio of attempts to successful attempts is probably fairly high as well. It isn't worthwhile to try to protect against these kinds of threats.

https://www.schneier.com/essay-087.html

Re: Evading Airport Security

#153

Post by tacticus » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 4:34 AM UTC

tsaoutourpants wrote: post #100

mseebach wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pilots knows the same as the passengers: That if the hijackers take the cockpit, odds are nobody lives, so in a crisis, his best strategy for both personal survival and for saving the most passengers is to get the plane on the ground as soon as possible. If a hijacker "just" wants to perform an old-school hijack, ie. not use the plane as a 9/11-style missile, his best odds are convincing the captain of that fact…

Fun fact: Smartphone GPS doesn't work above 10K feet, such that it can't be used to terrorize airplanes.

10k feet sounds a bit low. i thought the limit was at 60k feet and 600MPH

Re: Evading Airport Security

#154

Post by derleth » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 4:36 AM UTC

kunil wrote: post #30

Funnier thing is mall securities, you can't bring a small knife into mall but you can buy a chainsaw

> Funnier thing is mall securities, you can't bring a small knife into mall but you can buy a chainsaw

Can you fuel up (or charge up) a chainsaw in a mall? How dangerous is a chainsaw when it can't be turned on?

And that's assuming small knives really are banned from malls. Do they really care if you have a pocketknife on your belt? Maybe things are different where I live (Montana).

Re: Evading Airport Security

#155

Post by ISL » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 4:43 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #147

MBlume wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your friends still can't wait with you at the gate

Ah, that was a 9/11 thing?

Yep.

Re: Evading Airport Security

#156

Post by toast0 » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 7:10 AM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #145

tsaoutourpants wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: Smartphone GPS doesn't work above 10K feet, such that it can't be used to terrorize airplanes.

Is that an actual limitation of the GPS network, or a limitation of the client-side software. My understanding is that GPS satellites broadcast a timestamp, and the receivers use that information to compute their position. Assuming that this is accurate, devices should still be able to get the signal at higher altitudes. The only way I can think of this not working is if the geometry works out so that at 10K feet you…

Client side (may be in firmware or software): GPS above certain elevations or speeds requires a special export license that your smartphone probably doesn't have. An unlicensed device is required to output no fix (but it has to be able to calculate that the parameters are outside the allowed range).

http://ravtrack.com/GPStracking/cocom-gps-tracking-limits/46...

Re: Evading Airport Security

#157

Post by girvo » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 12:33 PM UTC

cheald wrote: post #106

girvo wrote: post #17

Well, guess this guy is now on the No Fly list.

Bruce Schneier is and has been one of the most outspoken critics of the TSA for years. This article isn't going to change any three-letter agency's opinion of him.

Not Scheiner, should've been more clear. I meant the person he is writing about :)

Re: Evading Airport Security

#158

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 2:40 PM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #129

ceejayoz wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A gasoline tanker and bomb would make a fire. As with any other vehicles on the road, they crash and catch fire on a regular basis without taking down sky scrapers. Hollywood representations of what gas tanks do when ruptured are inaccurate.

The WTC fell from fire weakening the steel frame.

Yes, from a plane, which first made massive holes in the structure, followed up by the fuel from an airline that carries more than one tanker truck worth of fuel being deposited into the center of the building.

Re: Evading Airport Security

#159

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 3:48 PM UTC

Daniel_Newby wrote: post #132

ceejayoz wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A gasoline tanker and bomb would make a fire. As with any other vehicles on the road, they crash and catch fire on a regular basis without taking down sky scrapers. Hollywood representations of what gas tanks do when ruptured are inaccurate.

A small leak on the side of a highway is different than the entire tank being ripped open in the lobby.

Good luck getting a tanker truck into a modern skyscraper's lobby. They've all got anti-truck posts concreted in around the perimeter to prevent just that.

Re: Evading Airport Security

#160

Post by jheriko » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 5:34 PM UTC

ars_technician wrote: post #114

jheriko wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locked doors and guns are one thing, and a pretty solid argument imo but... 20 american joe publics vs. any small number of arabs, maybe even just one? Fear of death is not such a great motivator as you imagine I think. have you seen people react to threats in the wild? especially from the first-world white middle class background? its just not a part of their life and generally they do really stupid things like free…

It's a good thing evolution doesn't work that quickly. Selection has less of an effect than you portray in this case. If it were true, it would be all middle-eastern countries winning the olympic events.

and black american people make excellent athletes - and that has nothing to do with selective breeding in the slave trade?

evolution is maybe not the answer, but my experience tells me that survival skills lack in my surrounds.