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NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

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Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#221

Post by sebkomianos »

acqq wrote: post #201
sebkomianos wrote: post #162

I shouldn’t be writing this. Every time I read something NSA/FBI/CIA/KGB/Interpol/MI5/Stasi related I get this instinctive feeling of angriness and sadness at the same time. We were given the “internet”, pretty much for free, and we believed it would be a fair deal? That there would be nothing in for them? When was the last time you were give something for free, can you even remember? They are breaking encryption? Re…

The view presented before the last line is counterproductive on so many levels. There's a nice name for it: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/defeatism Acceptance of defeat without struggle. The problem with the writing style where only the last line brings the change in mood is that a lot of people don't read everything. The direct call to action is always a better approach. Don't make the text full with wrong arguments…

A better approach for what? Against defeat you mean? I only wanted to share some thoughts, I am not a leader of a social movement or anything.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#222

Post by TheCondor »

swalkergibson wrote: post #29

I am now numb to these revelations, as I suspect are most of the technology community. The only thing that will make the rest of the general populace wake up is if someone on TV says they are vehemently opposed to it. Someone who has trotted out the, "I have nothing to hide, so I am not worried." I believe the only way this will happen is if Edward Snowden specifically targeted one of those people and created a file…

Take action!

The DNC is doing their annual "survey fund raiser" respond to it if you have one. I'm certain the RNC is doing something too. Write letters to you representatives, call them. I know this will shock and sound sacrilege to many here, give your sitting representatives $100 and share your opinion. Make defunding NSA your number one issue. We can play the game and it's not that expensive to be heard.

It won't stop right away, it could take time but it's closer than you think. Let the people in power know it's your biggest issue and put some campaign funds in to the mix to let the know this is for real. Moreover, I'd hope facebook, ms, google, etc would pony up some serious lobbyists, we need to beat that drum too.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#223

Post by sebkomianos »

bmelton wrote: post #181
sebkomianos wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realised this is coming out way more poetically than I intended, I hope it's not taken as dramaqueeny, my purpose isn't that at all.

Poetry is appropriate at funerals, and I too share a grim outlook for this country. That said, I would argue even further back than recently. The federal government has been exceeding its authority since its inception, hell, if not before. James Madison, as president, couldn't figure out how to reconcile his responsibility to build a system of highways (which he thought was a fantastic idea) with the constraints on t…

To clear any possible misunderstandings, I am not from and I don't live in the US. I was not talking about US-specific governments, agencies or individuals as I believe such phenomena have no nationality.

The "father" example you are giving has been the very exact argument people have against this kind of situations: We don't want any structure to act like it is our father or mother while your daughter (and most daughters and sons) will probably start crying if you tell them you are going to go away from their life.

As a society we have agreed (actively or passively) to a certain set of laws, that should be it. No Uncle Sam or Brother Jonathan.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#224

Post by Amadou »

Houshalter wrote: post #193
Amadou wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think NSA people are evil. They believe that the things they do are for good. Evil like in the movies doesn't exist. In the real-world evil is simply a lack of perspective (some would call it empathy instead). No one ever wakes up and decides they want to be a villain. They always have some sort of logic that rationalizes their actions as being reasonable if not outright good. The more they act on that lack o…

That's not entirely true. Like 4% of people are sociopaths with an inability to feel empathy for others or feel guilt for their actions. There really are evil people who know what they are doing is wrong and just don't care.

You are the second person to bring up sociopaths as if they don't match the definition of evil I wrote above. The thing is, they are the very personification of lacking empathy. They believe that their own welfare is more important than anyone else's. They don't see that as evil, they see it as the way of the world.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#225

Post by bmelton »

onetwofiveten wrote: post #211
diminoten wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So no one, then?

I guess you're getting down voted because it's an emotional issue. But you're right, so far, the number of people targeted by the NSA/CIA with extreme methods (i.e. drone strikes, imprisonment without trial, rendition, warrantless spying, blackmail) seems relatively small, and it seems to be mostly restricted to non-Americans or people that the American public don't really care about. That doesn't mean it's okay. Thi…

> seems relatively small, and it seems to be mostly restricted to non-Americans or people that the American public don't really care about.

For what it's worth - that's the very point of the poem, that it always starts with the undesirables, minorities, or peoples to whom the population wouldn't object to. The tacit implication there is that those people were all portrayed as evil first, allowing public acceptance of their abuse.

For the most part, even after Hitler started murdering Jews, he was still enjoyed pretty strong popularity.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#226

Post by sebkomianos »

aluhut wrote: post #200
sebkomianos wrote: post #162

I shouldn’t be writing this. Every time I read something NSA/FBI/CIA/KGB/Interpol/MI5/Stasi related I get this instinctive feeling of angriness and sadness at the same time. We were given the “internet”, pretty much for free, and we believed it would be a fair deal? That there would be nothing in for them? When was the last time you were give something for free, can you even remember? They are breaking encryption? Re…

> We were given the “internet”, pretty much for free, and we believed it would be a fair deal? I have to pay to get to the internet. The internet where people willingly create content. People with private information create content to be seen without additional payments. Companies create content to advertise and sell their products and so on. I see this as a fair deal. Why not? I agree with the rest of you posting bu…

That's why I said "pretty much": You may have to pay but the value for money deal is one of the best deals we ever got for anything, worldwide. We can do so many things online with a minimal cost.

The industry can do whatever it wants as long as it is legal. But it's not only about the industry, it's about the bigger picture. It's about a few guys with cameras around you recording every single thing you do and say (yes, yes, only while you are online and only while you are carrying a cellphone). I don't know what exactly they are doing with this information and I don't need to know in order to have the right to say that I don't like it.

I have hope too, but things are currently heading in a very wrong direction.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#227

Post by sebkomianos »

ohwp wrote: post #219
sebkomianos wrote: post #162

I shouldn’t be writing this. Every time I read something NSA/FBI/CIA/KGB/Interpol/MI5/Stasi related I get this instinctive feeling of angriness and sadness at the same time. We were given the “internet”, pretty much for free, and we believed it would be a fair deal? That there would be nothing in for them? When was the last time you were give something for free, can you even remember? They are breaking encryption? Re…

"Because the truth is, I can’t do anything." I think this is a lie (but I share your feelings). All the oppression is driven by the greed. Me myself and I is the norm. Not only in politics but a lot of people are turning to the believe that the world is all about self. The selfish world doesn't care about others. But I can tell you from my own experience that if you care about others (everyone included without except…

But people at the top can act selfishly while people at the bottom need to establish a culture of also caring about each other. So at one side you have individuals with a lot of resources that don't need that much of help from others and at the other side you have individuals with no resources that also need to rely on others. Makes the game quite hard to win right from its beginning, no?

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#228

Post by diminoten »

bmelton wrote: post #225
onetwofiveten wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you're getting down voted because it's an emotional issue. But you're right, so far, the number of people targeted by the NSA/CIA with extreme methods (i.e. drone strikes, imprisonment without trial, rendition, warrantless spying, blackmail) seems relatively small, and it seems to be mostly restricted to non-Americans or people that the American public don't really care about. That doesn't mean it's okay. Thi…

> seems relatively small, and it seems to be mostly restricted to non-Americans or people that the American public don't really care about. For what it's worth - that's the very point of the poem, that it always starts with the undesirables, minorities, or peoples to whom the population wouldn't object to. The tacit implication there is that those people were all portrayed as evil first, allowing public acceptance of…

The poem is one massive slippery-slope fallacy, and it's also a poem, not reality. It's fiction. Just like 1984, Brave New World, or any other literary piece that gets bandied about these days. Absolutely zero anchor in reality.

And "Jews" isn't the same as "terrorists". The US isn't going after people based on what they look like or who their parents are, they're going after people based on what they do and say. I know, it's shocking, that when you try to enter into violent combat with a nation-state, that nation-state is going to kill you. Those assholes.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#229

Post by diminoten »

downer91 wrote: post #194
diminoten wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who have they actually come for? What group is no longer here because the CIA/NSA have decided they shouldn't exist?

In a generation or two, those positions will be staffed by completely different people, as the "THEY" of today retire. When the "THEY" of tomorrow are handed the keys to this vast panopticon that they didn't have to build themselves, how will "THEY" behave. No one can be sure. Consider the men that inherited the ash heap of Europe after WWI. What did those men do? They started WWII.

If you think the world today is anything like post-WWI Europe, you're either immensely blind, or you don't know what post-WWI Europe looked like.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#230

Post by nate_meurer »

diminoten wrote: post #175
dredmorbius wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CIA does directly run ops and targeting. "The CIA's Silent War in Pakistan" http://content.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1900248,00.html "CIA drone attacks in Pakistan are responsible for unlawful killings, some of which could amount to war crimes, Amnesty International says." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24618701 "CIA Drone Strike Kills Pakistan Taliban Head Before Talks" http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2…

Have they admitted to any of these? Does the CIA admit to even owning drones? Or are these Army operations run by the CIA?

Not sure if you're just trolling, but I'll bite:

The CIA's drone program is not secret, and hasn't been for some time.

From http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/363199/obama-plan-shift...:

"Despite their overlapping “orbits” in Yemen, the CIA and JSOC employ different surveillance equipment on their drone fleets. They also rely on separate and sometimes incompatible communications networks to transmit video feeds and assemble intelligence from multiple streams in the moments before a strike."

From http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/11/05/cia_pen...:

"Keeping the drones with the CIA also offers legal cover for drone strikes, former officials argued. By law, the military is not supposed to conduct hostile actions outside a declared war zone, although special forces do so on occasion acting at the CIA's behest."

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