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Valve joins the Linux Foundation

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Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#111

Post by lazerwalker »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #45
lazerwalker wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The driver performance just isn't there. If you have a cross-platform game and run it on the same Apple machine in OS X and on Windows, the Windows version's gonna be WAY more performant. As a lesser frustration, most Windows games I play natively support the Xbox 360 controller, whereas almost no OS X ports do.

I was able to play quite a few games (Civ5, Walking dead, Portal 2, Diablo 3) without any issues on a Macbook (Pro 15 Retina first generation). Portal 2 and Walking Dead are quite playable also in my Macbook Air 13 (2010, last model with nvidia board). Of course these are relatively low requirements games. Do you have examples where the performance difference is relevant, and the games actually unplayable ?

On my mid-2012 11" MB Air, most games around the level of requirements you said tend to run maybe 3/4ths as well in OS X as in Windows 8 (Portal 2 being a concrete example). Not unplayable by any means, but the performance difference is substantial enough that it's worth my while to reboot into Windows.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#112

Post by Kurtz79 »

pjmlp wrote: post #76
Kurtz79 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are Macbooks (and Macs) with dedicated GPUs.

Which cost almost three times the average salary of most European countries.

I bought mine refurbished for 1300 euros, which is comparable to the price of similarly specced PCs (and about the average salary of most European countries).

Even if it was three times this price, what has that to do with its ability to play games ?

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#113

Post by benihana »

terabytest wrote: post #8
casca wrote: post #6

It will be interesting to see whether Valve can encourage the move to Linux gaming. Their biggest asset at this time is the distribution model of Steam, but that's not sufficient to get the big publishers to develop for OSX, never mind Linux. Edit: Valve's game list: http://www.valvesoftware.com/games/

OS X is not a good platform for gaming. It has a significantly smaller user base of which only an even more significantly smaller are gamers. Playing on a MacBook (or at least on my MacBook) is impossible, and I wouldn't buy an iMac for gaming. On the other hand, you can put Linux on anything (for free!), from your mom's 2002 pc to the latest generation hot stuff. This means there is indeed a potential, and somebody…

In my opinion, this will only take off if installing everything is easier than installing Windows + Steam + drivers. If Valve can give you an image to download that has the OS, the drivers, Steam, Firefox, and all the basic codecs you need to use a computer for gaming and common things like browsing the web, reading email, watching video and listening to music, this has a chance.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#114

Post by prg318 »

edoloughlin wrote: post #88
Mikeb85 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gaming doesn't work on OS X because it has too small a user base, but Linux's user base is much smaller. There's an estimated 20 million Ubuntu users worldwide, probably another 10 million or so of other Linux distros. Not to mention, Linux (and thus Steam OS) is easily installed. Adoption isn't a problem. Gaming on OSX doesn't work as well as on a PC because you can't put OSX on custom hardware. > As an aside, Lin…

Not to mention, Linux (and thus Steam OS) is easily installed. I updated my desktop to Linux Mint 16 today and discovered that neither Steam nor Wine will install on it. Steam seems to be supported on Ubuntu 12.10 (although it does work on 13.04).

Steam is included in the Linux Mint 16 repositories and you shouldn't have issues installing it from the package manager. Or you can always "apt-get install steam". Like most Linux applications, you are better off installing the application from the package manager instead of from the upstream website.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#115

Post by keypusher »

edoloughlin wrote: post #88
Mikeb85 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gaming doesn't work on OS X because it has too small a user base, but Linux's user base is much smaller. There's an estimated 20 million Ubuntu users worldwide, probably another 10 million or so of other Linux distros. Not to mention, Linux (and thus Steam OS) is easily installed. Adoption isn't a problem. Gaming on OSX doesn't work as well as on a PC because you can't put OSX on custom hardware. > As an aside, Lin…

Not to mention, Linux (and thus Steam OS) is easily installed. I updated my desktop to Linux Mint 16 today and discovered that neither Steam nor Wine will install on it. Steam seems to be supported on Ubuntu 12.10 (although it does work on 13.04).

Wouldn't install how/why? Both Steam and Wine are in the Mint repos, there is no reason they shouldn't install.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#116

Post by jeremyjh »

stinkytaco wrote: post #100
zanny wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it has too small a user base Maybe we should instead speak to potential user base. For OSX, the potential userbase is always whoever has the money to buy extremely pricey Apple hardware, at least if you want to game on it, since getting a competent gpu almost always requires the rest of the components be really pricey. For Linux, it is the sum total of all PCs out there with compatible hardware and firmware…

>For OSX, the potential userbase is always whoever has the money to buy extremely pricey Apple hardware, at least if you want to game on it, since getting a competent gpu almost always requires the rest of the components be really pricey. But the kind of gaming that Linux lacks is the kind that need pricey components. I can play Organ Trail or World of Goo on Linux right now. If I want to play COD, I'm going to need…

"Something substantial" is still a computer costing less than $800, or one that is four years old.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#117

Post by dimillian »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #85
dimillian wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be amazed on how it has changed. First, latest Macbook are kinda powerful on the GPU side, even with the integrated one, the Intel HD 5000 or Iris can run modern game at low/med settings. While it's shit for gamers who cares about graphics and performances, for any casual gamers it's sufficient. My Macbook is my work machine but also my gaming machine. The other things is about Wine, they're working on acceler…

You're not really playing BF4 on that Macbook. There are other non graphically challenging games you can play but not complex 3D games with decent graphic settings. I'm far from a graphics guy but things below a certain threshold just look bad and take away from the experience. I'd rather console game than deal with modern games on "low." Especially when you find yourself in situations where you get random frame drop…

Yeah, BF4 on wine may be unplayable (I've not tested it). About the GPU, My MBPr was shipped with an NVIDIA GT 650M, which is not that bad. And the new one got a 750M.

With those GPU you can have med/hight settings on... on Windows. I'm really impatient for the release of the Wine version with the graphic boost, it should be able to run most game at 70-90% of their Windows counterparts.

The big problem is with the retina display, you have to run game at 14XX X 9XX to have decent performance, but it can be ugly, because of the display not being at its native resolution.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#118

Post by coldtea »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #82
stinkytaco wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. Gaming doesn't work on OS X because it has too small a user base, but Linux's user base is much smaller. Playing on a Macbook is impossible (presumably for performance reasons?), but you talk about putting Linux on a 2002 PC for gaming. And Linux may or may not run on the latest generation hot stuff, depending on how much time you want to spend to get your newest graphics card w…

> Gaming doesn't work on OS X because it has too small a user base, but Linux's user base is much smaller. There's an estimated 20 million Ubuntu users worldwide, probably another 10 million or so of other Linux distros. Not to mention, Linux (and thus Steam OS) is easily installed. Adoption isn't a problem. Gaming on OSX doesn't work as well as on a PC because you can't put OSX on custom hardware. > As an aside, Lin…

>It's not like every Windows PC has the same screen resolution and hardware, yet it's the biggest gaming platform...

No, but it has excellent binary compatibility, long term game APIs, and stable 3D and audio driver APIs. Which is what matters for desktop gaming, and what Linux does not have.

As for screen resolution and hardware capabilities, those matter on mobile (e.g iOS vs Android), and mostly for applications, not games.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#119

Post by mcb3k »

stinkytaco wrote: post #100
zanny wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it has too small a user base Maybe we should instead speak to potential user base. For OSX, the potential userbase is always whoever has the money to buy extremely pricey Apple hardware, at least if you want to game on it, since getting a competent gpu almost always requires the rest of the components be really pricey. For Linux, it is the sum total of all PCs out there with compatible hardware and firmware…

>For OSX, the potential userbase is always whoever has the money to buy extremely pricey Apple hardware, at least if you want to game on it, since getting a competent gpu almost always requires the rest of the components be really pricey. But the kind of gaming that Linux lacks is the kind that need pricey components. I can play Organ Trail or World of Goo on Linux right now. If I want to play COD, I'm going to need…

I think you're over-estimating how much money it takes to get a relatively good gaming computer. You could probably build an entry-level gaming machine for around 700 to 800 dollars. Add in a keyboard, mouse, and a nice monitor and you'll probably end up closer to 1,000 USD. That's still 200 to 300 dollars cheaper than a Macbook Pro or an iMac, and 100 dollars cheaper than building the equivalent system running Windows (OEM Windows Home Premium is 100 dollars).

That would be equivalent to, say, buying a desktop from Dell (300~500 USD) and an XBox One (500 USD), which is a reasonable cost if someone wants to play the more graphically intense games.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#120

Post by keypusher »

easy_rider wrote: post #40
FridayWithJohn wrote: post #2

The one thing that has forced me keep Windows on my PC is the fact that most games require it. Hearing that such a large player in the gaming industry wants to move to Linux is really fantastic news.

The only thing that bugs me is that driver support is lagging behind so bad on Linux. I remember when Linus said something about why you should buy ATI for linux gaming. Because they have open source drivers.. In the end I returned my ATI card. My older Turion x64/hd3650 something laptop is still struggling with whatever flavor Linux. Still a work in progresss to get my Samsung 40" full hd TV through HDMI detected as…

As much as Linus might not like it, the nVidia closed source drivers are the only Linux display drivers that are production ready for high performance 3D gaming.
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