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F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

bbc.co.uk

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Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#101

Post by cjrp »

bliti wrote: post #85
cjrp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an area that has been slow to change over the years, due to the small amount of turbocharged vehicles available new. Most turbos are used in heavy machinery (garbage trucks, big rigs, etc.), a slowly changing industry. I'm not sure this is true in England - most diesel cars on the road have a turbocharger.

You are right. My point was that there not many petrol or gasoline powered turbocharged autos. Diesels powered autos are commonly turbocharged. In the USA, diesel autos are not common. Thus, turbos are mostly seen in high-performance vehicles (like the 911, WRX, etc.).

Interesting. Is it hard to find gas stations which sell diesel over there as a result?

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#102

Post by 001sky »

gambiting wrote: post #86
001sky wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The silly cost and stil 840 hp @ 1x,000 rpm is just a bunch of window dressing for the Lefties. The entire enterprise of F1 will never be "green", once you take into account the production of the cars, the crash repleacements, fuel used in training and lower Fxx series, and...the fact that these clowns fly all of this junk around the WORLD to drive. They are doing to f1 what they did to the America's cup. Ba…

Have you considered,that technologies developed for F1 by lets say....Mercedes, can later be used in their regular cars and therefore improve efficiency of not just a single F1 car,but millions of cars on the road? With the promotion of turbochargers in F1, a stupid amount of research is going to go into them - and they are used in pretty much every diesel car on the road now, so if the technology can be improved fur…

> I've read the article and I don't think it mentions making F1 greener - it's not what it's about.

(1) Max Mosley and the International Automobile Federation decided 18 months before the 2009 season that all teams must develop a Kinetic Energy Recovery System, or KERS, for use in the 2009 season. It was part of the effort to make Formula 1 more .[1]

(2) Equally, efficiency will be key in 2014. And guess who had the most aerodynamically efficient car and fuel-efficient engine. Yes, Red Bull and partner Renault.

(3) These engines will be governed by two different fuel restrictions: a maximum fuel-flow rate of 100kg an hour; and a maximum of 100kg of fuel to be used through a race.

Now, that being said...the magnetic ers recovery of the turbo over-spin and electronic wastegate seem interesting and quite cool.

[1] From: An A-Z Look at KERS, the F1 Environmental Initiative, http://formula1.about.com/od/car1/a/An-A-Z-Look-At-Kers-The-...

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#103

Post by Gravityloss »

joosters wrote: post #43
InclinedPlane wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much. The top speed for controllable driving in a wheeled vehicle is in the 300mph range. The power and aerodynamics requirements to step up to 400mph are severe. Specifically, the wheel-driven land-speed record is a bit over 400mph (although just last year it climbed up to 440mph) and the vehicles capable of going that fast are nearly incapable of taking turns of any significance at those speeds. Jet powered veh…

Perhaps the turning could be improved if jets were used for steering as well? But by this point, you are effectively left with a rocket that just happens to have some circular things that touch the ground.

You'd rather use aerodynamic surfaces for turning as well as the speed increased.

It would start resembling aerobatic aircraft like Extra 300.

High aerodynamic acceleration is an old thing, it's how they actually discovered G-induced loss of consciousness. If you are mostly doing the racing with electronic motors, there's less noise and it's not as interesting anymore. Therefore some airstream operated whistle or siren would be useful, as you could deduce the speed directly from it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC9Lmr5mjJQ

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#104

Post by Spearchucker »

spacecadet wrote: post #71
Spearchucker wrote: post #61

I stopped watching F1 about 10 years ago, and these new changes just reaffirm that decision. It's no longer about best car + best driver. It's about mixing it up, making it random, to maximise viewer numbers. Not the kind of racing I go for.

No it isn't! Racing has always been the source of innovation in automotive- safety harness for example.. ABS, etc Its exactly the fact that racing became "about best car + drive" that innovation slumped and we still drive cars that are pretty much no different than when Fuel Injection was introduced in the 70's! I welcome these challenges. I have been slowly developing my own diesel/electric hybrid using similar tech…

Respectfully disagree. Your post suggests that motor industry innovation is driven (pardon the pun) by F1. Some of it is, but typically for super cars. Certainly not all of it, or even most of it.

Besides, constraining the car specs in and of itself stifles innovation. How much F1 tech is there in Tesla, for example?

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#105

Post by Spearchucker »

masklinn wrote: post #89
Spearchucker wrote: post #61

I stopped watching F1 about 10 years ago, and these new changes just reaffirm that decision. It's no longer about best car + best driver. It's about mixing it up, making it random, to maximise viewer numbers. Not the kind of racing I go for.

> It's no longer about best car + best driver. It already wasn't about best car 15 years ago, or in the 90s for that matter. Turbos were banned in 1989 for instance.

You're right, but up until 10 years ago the best driver still had a chance. Schumacher turned Ferrari around, proving it. And that's when they really started changing the rules to promote random outsider wins.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#106

Post by DanBC »

Spearchucker wrote: post #61

I stopped watching F1 about 10 years ago, and these new changes just reaffirm that decision. It's no longer about best car + best driver. It's about mixing it up, making it random, to maximise viewer numbers. Not the kind of racing I go for.

"Best car" in 2014 technology could be seriously very dangerous. It would also be so expensive that you'd get 4 companies competing.

And best driver? Well, one guy seems to do quite well year after year, so maybe he's pretty good.

It'd be cool to see (even simulated) how a Computer driver would do.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#107

Post by maxerickson »

cjrp wrote: post #101
bliti wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right. My point was that there not many petrol or gasoline powered turbocharged autos. Diesels powered autos are commonly turbocharged. In the USA, diesel autos are not common. Thus, turbos are mostly seen in high-performance vehicles (like the 911, WRX, etc.).

Interesting. Is it hard to find gas stations which sell diesel over there as a result?

Maybe a little harder. But we do a lot of shipping by truck, so there is diesel pretty much everywhere, just not at every station.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#108

Post by Tegran »

logicallee wrote: post #59
vanderZwan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While certainly impressive, that's been true of F1 cars for decades.

As you say "decades" I did a cursory search for a video (assuming perhaps at some point during that time someone thought to make one.) I found this interesting video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcPsSI4O2S0 but would certainly like to see an F1 care drive literally upside-down (normal to horizontal) if you have anything like that. I just searched for a second on YouTube.

The whole "driving upside down" thing is mostly theoretical because although the aerodynamics might allow it, none of the rest of the car is designed to work upside down without some modifications:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1752888-can-a-formula-1-c...

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#109

Post by rlu »

Spearchucker wrote: post #61

I stopped watching F1 about 10 years ago, and these new changes just reaffirm that decision. It's no longer about best car + best driver. It's about mixing it up, making it random, to maximise viewer numbers. Not the kind of racing I go for.

Yikes. You ought to watch the 2008-2011 (maybe 2012) seasons. Truly awesome.

2013 has been a bore - but partly because the past few seasons have been spectacular.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#110

Post by cabbeer »

"Bernie Ecclestone has done a magnificent job with Formula One and he needs these last-minute showdowns. But we, the keen viewers, need to be assured that it is still motorsport with young men going wheel-to-wheel in a life or death struggle for glory. And not panto." -Jeremy Clarkson
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