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F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

bbc.co.uk

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Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#81

Post by 001sky »

Spearchucker wrote: post #61

I stopped watching F1 about 10 years ago, and these new changes just reaffirm that decision. It's no longer about best car + best driver. It's about mixing it up, making it random, to maximise viewer numbers. Not the kind of racing I go for.

I agree. The silly cost and stil 840 hp @ 1x,000 rpm is just a bunch of window dressing for the Lefties. The entire enterprise of F1 will never be "green", once you take into account the production of the cars, the crash repleacements, fuel used in training and lower Fxx series, and...the fact that these clowns fly all of this junk around the WORLD to drive. They are doing to f1 what they did to the America's cup. Basically turning a sport into a spectacle to which no 'normal' sportsman can really relate.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#82

Post by monk_e_boy »

sheri wrote: post #25

The video mentions that the aerodynamics of the car generates so much down-force that it could ride upside-down on the ceiling. Wow.

I think the fuel and oil are gravity fed, or aren't under enough pressure to work upside-down.

I love watching the cars as they come out of a slow corner, they look like they are prancing on their toes, then as they speed up they 'suck' down to the ground... really cool

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#83

Post by pbo »

T-zex wrote: post #73
pbo wrote: post #65

I wrote firmware (~20kLocs) for a power (electrical) supply that's part of one such power train. This kind of development is very demanding, because you can't afford to leave any bugs in your program but at the same time you're always shipping late because of tight schedules and often blurry specifications. On top of that hardware and software development cycles are concurrent, so no target hardware available when yo…

Wow! Have you developed the software for the ECU?

Actually I distribute power from the battery to other subsystems, so it's rather far from the ECU.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#84

Post by gambiting »

bliti wrote: post #52

The interesting bit here is the development of the turbochargers. This is an area that has been slow to change over the years, due to the small amount of turbocharged vehicles available new[1]. Most turbos are used in heavy machinery (garbage trucks, big rigs, etc.), a slowly changing industry. They do not face the same regulations as regular autos. Seems they are doing away with the wastegate and replacing it with a…

" due to the small amount of turbocharged vehicles available new"??? Pretty much 99% of diesel cars available now in Europe have turbochargers, I don't remember when was the last time I saw a car without one. And most newly announced cars for 2014(for example - new Nissan Qashqai) got rid of their naturally aspirated petrol engines in favour of smaller but turbocharged petrol engines.

Maybe in the US the situation is different,but in EU the non-turbocharged engines are a dying breed,and have been for at least a decade now.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#85

Post by bliti »

cjrp wrote: post #60
bliti wrote: post #52

The interesting bit here is the development of the turbochargers. This is an area that has been slow to change over the years, due to the small amount of turbocharged vehicles available new[1]. Most turbos are used in heavy machinery (garbage trucks, big rigs, etc.), a slowly changing industry. They do not face the same regulations as regular autos. Seems they are doing away with the wastegate and replacing it with a…

> This is an area that has been slow to change over the years, due to the small amount of turbocharged vehicles available new. Most turbos are used in heavy machinery (garbage trucks, big rigs, etc.), a slowly changing industry. I'm not sure this is true in England - most diesel cars on the road have a turbocharger.

You are right. My point was that there not many petrol or gasoline powered turbocharged autos. Diesels powered autos are commonly turbocharged. In the USA, diesel autos are not common. Thus, turbos are mostly seen in high-performance vehicles (like the 911, WRX, etc.).

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#86

Post by gambiting »

001sky wrote: post #81
Spearchucker wrote: post #61

I stopped watching F1 about 10 years ago, and these new changes just reaffirm that decision. It's no longer about best car + best driver. It's about mixing it up, making it random, to maximise viewer numbers. Not the kind of racing I go for.

I agree. The silly cost and stil 840 hp @ 1x,000 rpm is just a bunch of window dressing for the Lefties. The entire enterprise of F1 will never be "green", once you take into account the production of the cars, the crash repleacements, fuel used in training and lower Fxx series, and...the fact that these clowns fly all of this junk around the WORLD to drive. They are doing to f1 what they did to the America's cup. Ba…

Have you considered,that technologies developed for F1 by lets say....Mercedes, can later be used in their regular cars and therefore improve efficiency of not just a single F1 car,but millions of cars on the road?

With the promotion of turbochargers in F1, a stupid amount of research is going to go into them - and they are used in pretty much every diesel car on the road now, so if the technology can be improved further, then it's all for the best.

I've read the article and I don't think it mentions making F1 greener - it's not what it's about.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#87

Post by corresation »

beat wrote: post #67
sanoli wrote: post #5

There are so many rules dictating the design of an F1 chassis/engine that I wonder how much faster a "anything goes" car would go.

There used to be an "anything goes" series… the original Can-Am (1966-1986) - what Car and Driver called "the vehicular equivalent of great white sharks in a goldfish bowl". The regulations were basically "two seats, enclosed fenders". There was effectively no regulation of engine size or configuration, or of aerodynamics. It was abandoned in part due to extreme cost, and in part due to the safety problems. The last…

Tight regulation in F1 and other racing forms keeps the focus on the driver, not the car.

F1 has always been about the car, and the most heralded of driver in one car often becomes completely humdrum in another, and vice versa. Tight regulations simply change the parameters that the car makers have to optimize, and ultimately came about because without continually restricting the engineering, the cars were becoming impossibly fast.

The only series that are really about the driver have identical cars. I believe that is how the Formula E thing is planned, for instance, at least to begin.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#88

Post by ohwp »

nodata wrote: post #38
sheri wrote: post #25

The video mentions that the aerodynamics of the car generates so much down-force that it could ride upside-down on the ceiling. Wow.

Let's hope that they'll introduce that for next year then. (I might be able to watch it for longer than three minutes then)

It's called Trackmania ;)

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#89

Post by masklinn »

Spearchucker wrote: post #61

I stopped watching F1 about 10 years ago, and these new changes just reaffirm that decision. It's no longer about best car + best driver. It's about mixing it up, making it random, to maximise viewer numbers. Not the kind of racing I go for.

> It's no longer about best car + best driver.

It already wasn't about best car 15 years ago, or in the 90s for that matter. Turbos were banned in 1989 for instance.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#90

Post by bliti »

paulyg wrote: post #80
bliti wrote: post #52

The interesting bit here is the development of the turbochargers. This is an area that has been slow to change over the years, due to the small amount of turbocharged vehicles available new[1]. Most turbos are used in heavy machinery (garbage trucks, big rigs, etc.), a slowly changing industry. They do not face the same regulations as regular autos. Seems they are doing away with the wastegate and replacing it with a…

Turbocharging has been making a huge comeback in the US over the last 5 years, driven mainly by the increase in fuel economy it affords. The biggest example of this is Ford's Ecoboost engines, which are all turbocharged and direct injection. Many 2014 Cadillacs are V6 turbos. There are countless 1.8 and 2.0 VW and Audi turbos on our roads. Let's not forget all the WRXs and Mini Cooper S, Acura RDX (<=2012), Mazda CX7…

CAFE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy) is the reason more new cars are being produced with small turbocharged engines. Manufacturers are able to get the same power from a small turbocharged engine with less fuel consumption through the use of direct injection, variable valve timing and lift control, and better engine controls/sensors.
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