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Dell introduces 28" 4K Ultra HD Monitor for under $1K, shipping early 2014

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Re: Dell introduces 28" 4K Ultra HD Monitor for under $1K, shipping early 2014

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan of alt-tabbing either. I use 4 20" displays currently because I like the convenience of maximizing something on one display. Don't you miss that with one big desktop?

> I'm not a fan of alt-tabbing either. I use 4 20" displays currently because I like the convenience of maximizing something on one display. Don't you miss that with one big desktop? There's no fundamental reason you would have to -- if you have a window manager that extends the "drag to the side to half-maximize" behavior that Windows 7 has to, say, include dragging to the corner to "quarter-maximize" (ideally, with…

Tangentially related, for anyone looking for this functionality on the Mac, do yourself a favour and get Cinch.

http://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/cinch/

Re: Dell introduces 28" 4K Ultra HD Monitor for under $1K, shipping early 2014

#172
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57566079-221/why-ultra-... Comment sections like this are why HN is called an echo chamber.

The original comment missed the point of the chart in the article you link: the increased pixel density is useless __at TV viewing distances__. When you go down to about 2 feet from the screen, 4k is pretty apparent on a 30 inch screen. A clearer chart is at [1], and the Carlton Bale's original article even has a handy calculator that lets you verify this [2]. 1: http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html 2: htt…

How close are you to your monitor(s) at the exact moment you read this?

I'm not at 2 feet with a smaller dual display, and I'd imagine I'd sit further away with gigantic 30+ monitor(s). I know I do when I use a 27. Others at $work mostly sit at least as far away.

In this area of improved vision, what does it gain you? Did all the old hackers not amount to what they could have been because they perceived some less pixels than there could have been?

I don't think a serious argument can be made on this this front until standards reach at least 16k.

Re: Dell introduces 28" 4K Ultra HD Monitor for under $1K, shipping early 2014

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drop the screen refresh rate to 24hz to match the video then...

That was an option on CRTs since you could control the speed of the beam, but I'm not aware of any LCDs that have an adjustable native refresh rate. Ah, the good ol' days, when blacks were black and "non-native resolutions" weren't a thing. :)

Actually in this case it would work fine. The Seiki's panel is actually 120hz, the 30hz limit is on the input side. Send it a 24hz HDMI signal and it can easily match that up to the panel's actual 120hz refresh rate by simply showing each input frame for 5 panel refreshes instead of the 4 refreshes it displays the 30hz input at. The Seiki can also take 1080p input at 60hz, which would be a reasonable fallback for gaming. Run 4k 30hz for desktop usage, and 1080p 60hz for gaming.

Re: Dell introduces 28" 4K Ultra HD Monitor for under $1K, shipping early 2014

#174
post #101
post #95

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> "Inadequate" for gaming, yes. Inadequate for computing? Hardly. How about for watching movies? High framerates would obviously seem very important for gaming, but it's not clear how important they are to movies/shows. Your thoughts?

Admittedly, we've not yet watched a film on the Seiki. We have fired up a few Youtube videos at full-screen and aside from looking comical (due to the large lossy compression artifacts present even in Youtube's highest quality videos), the video seems as smooth as Youtube ever does, at least to my eye. I suspect for video from a higher-quality source, my opinion would not be so forgiving. But put briefly, for consumi…

YouTube is 30fps, so it should match up with vsync nicely.

Re: Dell introduces 28" 4K Ultra HD Monitor for under $1K, shipping early 2014

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was an option on CRTs since you could control the speed of the beam, but I'm not aware of any LCDs that have an adjustable native refresh rate. Ah, the good ol' days, when blacks were black and "non-native resolutions" weren't a thing. :)

That's one thing I never understood. With CRT's, you still had discrete pixels (either clusters of 3 RGB dots, or 3 RGB bars). But no matter the resolution (within the CRT's limits), nothing looked blotchy. Whereas on an LCD, you can always tell when it isn't running in a native resolution (or even divisor). So what is the difference? Other than a CRT would naturally do analog interpolation, couldn't an LCD or graphi…

I am not a hardware guy, but from my understanding a CRT uses an electron gun a distance from the screen to cause a matrix of phosphors to emit light. Hence the depth of CRTs. The electron gun can repeatedly scans from top to bottom, left to right (or whatever direction).

It can be adjusted to make any number of vertical "lines" as it sweeps over the phosphor matrix, but the matrix has a fixed dot-pitch. Because an electron beam is being shot at the matrix from a distance, there's a certain degree of bleed-over to neighboring phosphors. Firing electrons at the phosphors at coordinate 100,200 means a little bit of energy is also received by 99,199 and other neighboring "virtual pixels."

In other words, while the phosphor matrix was just as rigid as the pixel matrix of an LCD, the power source that caused light to be emitted was not perfectly matched 1:1 with the matrix. There isn't an electron gun for each pixel, there is a single electron gun for the whole display.

By comparison, each pixel in an LCD monitor (putting aside the three internal pixels for colors) is an individual mask over a uniformly white back-light. The panel adjusts the opacity of the mask to allow more or less of the white backlight through. The mask over a backlight is what gives LCDs a challenge with viewing angle (because there's a non-zero gap between the light source and the mask and the mask itself has a non-zero depth).

Finally, as I understand it, a plasma television is a bit like both. It's a matrix of phosphors like a CRT, but with individual power sources for each pixel like an LCD. Because light is emitted at the surface, plasmas tend to have very good viewing angles.

OLED then is, in my opinion at least, a spiritual successor to plasma. OLED emits light at its surface like an LCD or plasma, but uses no mask layer over a backlight, like a CRT or plasma.

(Take all of the above with a grain of salt because I'm just a layperson when it comes to hardware.)

Re: Dell introduces 28" 4K Ultra HD Monitor for under $1K, shipping early 2014

#176
post #142

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The Hobbit [1] is the only movie I can think of that is shot at a higher frame rate, it being shot at 48 fps. [1] http://www.fastcocreate.com/1682085/will-the-hobbit-start-a-...

There are some noises about higher framerate movie production; The Hobbit was the first, and it was not well received. Motion at 30fps and higher looks very different than motion at 24fps, and part of the resistance to HFR is simply unfamiliarity; however, a lot of shots in The Hobbit were not improved by the 48fps presentation; I think that we won't get good results until film projection is dead, and directors and D…

It might just be the unfamiliarity, but I have a feeling that a benefit of 24fps is that while it loses data, your mind fills in the details to make it more believable. At higher framerates I have a subtle feeling that the acting seems more fake, maybe because the higher detail of the framerate highlights the mistakes of the actors more, or with CGI it highlights the unnatural movements of the computer animation.

Re: Dell introduces 28" 4K Ultra HD Monitor for under $1K, shipping early 2014

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UltraSharp is an established Dell moniker though, been around much longer than UltraHD. Anyway, as for unifying the product line- Dell being Dell, that would mean simply cutting the UltraSharp product line, which I would consider a loss.

Why do the new UltraHD monitors need to have the same name as previous Dell monitors? It's just a name. In fact, UltraSharp vs UltraHD seems like a great way to distinguish between 4K+ and lower res monitors, while still making both seem "good" to consumers.

Ultrasharp is to Dell monitors what "MacBook Pro" is to Apple laptops. Dell clearly intends, with their 24/32 vs cheaper 28, to have pro quality and mainstream quality displays both at UltraHD/4k resolution the same way they have both pro quality 1080p (ultrasharp) and cheap crappy 1080p (not ultrasharp).

It is unfortunate for dell that the 2160p resolution got labeled something so similar to their existing brand.

Re: Dell introduces 28" 4K Ultra HD Monitor for under $1K, shipping early 2014

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "your", you mean "my", don't you? Also, you seem confused by these TV-related terms and only think of videos and games here; you'd have to be half-way blind not to see the difference between 75 and 150 PPI density with typical font sizes (computer fonts are usually a tad bigger than what's necessary just because of the lousy displays we have).

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57566079-221/why-ultra-... Comment sections like this are why HN is called an echo chamber.

Comments like yours are why people say HN's comments are degrading in quality. You can't even grasp the difference in viewing distance of a television versus a computer monitor, and the obvious impact that would have on how noticeable a particular pixel density is, yet you wrote a condescending comment. Unbelievable.

Incidentally, given that displays seem to be continually trending larger, I expect that we'll eventually have an entire wall in our homes that's a display. 4k is just another step toward that.

Re: Dell introduces 28" 4K Ultra HD Monitor for under $1K, shipping early 2014

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do the new UltraHD monitors need to have the same name as previous Dell monitors? It's just a name. In fact, UltraSharp vs UltraHD seems like a great way to distinguish between 4K+ and lower res monitors, while still making both seem "good" to consumers.

Ultrasharp is to Dell monitors what "MacBook Pro" is to Apple laptops. Dell clearly intends, with their 24/32 vs cheaper 28, to have pro quality and mainstream quality displays both at UltraHD/4k resolution the same way they have both pro quality 1080p (ultrasharp) and cheap crappy 1080p (not ultrasharp). It is unfortunate for dell that the 2160p resolution got labeled something so similar to their existing brand.

Sure. But as someone who has owned several Ultrasharp monitors, I don't feel that it would hurt their brand to come up with a different differentiator for 4K monitors. The brand is Dell, not Ultrasharp. I can almost guarantee that anyone who even knows what Ultrasharp means would be the kind of people to research the specs of a monitor before buying it anyway. So maintaining that 'brand' across all their high-end monitors just doesn't seem necessary.

Re: Dell introduces 28" 4K Ultra HD Monitor for under $1K, shipping early 2014

#180
post #56
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50" for my desktop. What? Most people I know can't even handle the current 30" monitors. It feels nicer having two 27" monitors from a not-grossly-exceeding-peripheral-vision viewpoint.

Like jfb says, different strokes. I use multiple 30" monitors on my two workstations and I would prefer a single 50" display. My wife's Seiki has more raw pixels than two of my 30" monitors. I admit that an ideal 50" display would be OLED and concave, but I'll keep those off my wish-list for the time being. I don't want the manufacturers to think I'm being unreasonable. High-DPI and large form-factor seem reasonable…

Single High DPI 50" screen all the way! I hate the bezels between my monitors and the low DPI. With a monitor like that you could move not important stuff more to the top ("like logging output") and have the development tools/browser in the lower area, cant wait :)

Regarding the raw pixel, a typical 30" has 4.1M pixels, so two have 8.2M pixels and the Seiki has 8.3M which is hardly a difference, your point still stands though.

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