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Government Chemist Tampered With 40,000 Cases

filmingcops.com

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Re: Government Chemist Tampered With 40,000 Cases

#61

Post by mr_spothawk »

Someone wrote: post #52

Embarassing for the government, criminal, etc? Yes, but the title (both on HN and in the original) is sensationalistic. 40,000 cases in 10 years? That's around 15 cases per working day. She must have almost done a search and replace to be that 'productive'. Because of that, I suspect the 'up to 40,000' means there are 40,000 cases that she might have affected, not that she is known to have affected.

Did you see the link @ the bottom of the article?

> "Another Chemist at Dookhan’s Lab Accused of Deception, More than 180,000 Cases Need Review"

Seems your suspicion about how the counting gets done is accurate.

Re: Government Chemist Tampered With 40,000 Cases

#62

Post by judk »

DanBC wrote: post #56
3pt14159 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It is simpler than you are making it out to be. If you say "I did the test that proves it is heroin" and you didn't, and you are smart enough to be a chemist, and you see some poor guy get put in jail, then you are evil.

Okay, sure, whatever. But she didn't think she was being evil. She somehow persuaded herself that what she was doing was okay. That's the interesting bit. Why do people go along with things that they know are wrong. She wasn't alone in this, there are a bunch of other people involved too. And it's similar for other frauds and deceptions. She didn't wake up and think "Fuck it, I'm going to jail thousands of innocent p…

Maybe she was thinking "the job market for PhDs stinks. I better do this job the way I am expected. And these hoodlums don't deserve to get off on technicalities-- the cops wouldn't collar someone they didn't know was a crook."

Re: Government Chemist Tampered With 40,000 Cases

#63

Post by aeturnum »

goldenkey wrote: post #32

Are we seriously up in arms about the chemist? The prosecutors are the worse filth here. And the worst thing about it is that the DA and the prosecutors are going to bury her into the ground, and villify her, while they get away totally scott-free. The system just keeps on churning.. “Any help would be greatly appreciated!” he wrote, punctuating each sentence with a long string of exclamation points. “Thank you!”

I agree that the prosecutors are probably guilty of some kind of misconduct. However, I think the email you quote is the kind we would see either way. We expect prosecutors to be unabashed in their pursuit of convictions - it's their job. They should cajole and berate, in turn, people who help or hinder their cases.

That may be a shitty model, but it's the model we use. We have a responsibility to only punish people for things they knew to be wrong - thanking a lab tech for a favorable result doesn't cross that line.

Re: Government Chemist Tampered With 40,000 Cases

#64

Post by scarmig »

gergles wrote: post #51
marze wrote: post #43

What about the prosecutors involved in requesting faked evidence? One would expect some long sentences.

I would expect them never being allowed to be a prosecutor ever again. There's plenty of other legal jobs they can have, but they abused the public's trust too much to ever hold this one ever again.

Uh, no. They shouldn't be allowed to have any legal profession again.

Think about all the wrongfully convicted people who are marked as felons now. They can't get a job in the legal field now. Hell, they have difficulty getting a job at a fast food restaurant.

The fact that the sociopaths who committed this travesty against justice have expensive mortgages to pay and private schools to send their kids to isn't any reason for excess gentleness.

Re: Government Chemist Tampered With 40,000 Cases

#65

Post by gradys »

austinz wrote: post #60

I find it hard to believe she'd be the only person to do these sorts of things. How many other people across the US in similar positions are surreptitiously tampering with the legal system right now? And how can we find them?

Given n>40,000, statistical analysis is one approach.

Re: Government Chemist Tampered With 40,000 Cases

#66

Post by DanBC »

sigstoat wrote: post #42
seivan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm not sure, but well, wouldn't a simple question of "where did your degree in chemistry come from" while the person in question is under OAuth? EDIT: Oath. I've been working too much recently.

since that is exactly what she was lying, or confused about, i fail to see how asking it one more time would help. in fact, the state prosecutors probably asked her that question a bajillion times, as part of qualifying her as an expert witness. (added: in case you don't know, i'd like to clarify that qualifying expert witnesses occurs in open court. the defense, judge, jury, anyone watching the case, etc would all h…

How much does it cost to check whether someone got the degree they said they did from the place they said they did?

It's an interesting question about who should bear that cost.

Re: Government Chemist Tampered With 40,000 Cases

#67

Post by goldenkey »

aeturnum wrote: post #63
goldenkey wrote: post #32

Are we seriously up in arms about the chemist? The prosecutors are the worse filth here. And the worst thing about it is that the DA and the prosecutors are going to bury her into the ground, and villify her, while they get away totally scott-free. The system just keeps on churning.. “Any help would be greatly appreciated!” he wrote, punctuating each sentence with a long string of exclamation points. “Thank you!”

I agree that the prosecutors are probably guilty of some kind of misconduct. However, I think the email you quote is the kind we would see either way. We expect prosecutors to be unabashed in their pursuit of convictions - it's their job. They should cajole and berate, in turn, people who help or hinder their cases. That may be a shitty model, but it's the model we use. We have a responsibility to only punish people…

Results should be impartial. Bribing the lab tech is not what I would call a fair and balanced process.

Re: Government Chemist Tampered With 40,000 Cases

#68

Post by kmfrk »

pasbesoin wrote: post #2

So, it appears that evidence processing has something akin to zero controls and (effective) auditing? Where prosecutors either knew of or had strong reason to suspect this misbehavior, their immunity should be dissolved and they should be prosecuted. Their personal assets should also be subject to forfeiture for compensation.

Don't worry, it gets worse: http://www.npr.org/series/133208980/post-mortem-death-invest....

Re: Government Chemist Tampered With 40,000 Cases

#69

Post by Crito »

trekky1700 wrote: post #57
msandford wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Superficially I have to agree with you that I look like a hypocrite. The government is the body which has a monopoly on violence. In other words, they're the only people who can legally do things to people that nobody would volunteer to have done to them, like going to prison. It's the government's job to provide courts through which disputes can be resolved, since you aren't supposed to take matters into your own ha…

By god, is the human race so savage that we resort to killing so quickly. This is a life, something some people would consider priceless. Not something you can view arithmetically, calculating the hours in damage caused versus somebody's time left.

Do we actually think that a human life is priceless, or is that just something that we say that we think to make ourselves feel good about ourselves?

We regularly put a price on human life in civil cases, and that price always seems to be finite and fairly low.

Re: Government Chemist Tampered With 40,000 Cases

#70

Post by scotty79 »

DanBC wrote: post #56
3pt14159 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It is simpler than you are making it out to be. If you say "I did the test that proves it is heroin" and you didn't, and you are smart enough to be a chemist, and you see some poor guy get put in jail, then you are evil.

Okay, sure, whatever. But she didn't think she was being evil. She somehow persuaded herself that what she was doing was okay. That's the interesting bit. Why do people go along with things that they know are wrong. She wasn't alone in this, there are a bunch of other people involved too. And it's similar for other frauds and deceptions. She didn't wake up and think "Fuck it, I'm going to jail thousands of innocent p…

She was thinking: "I'm helping justice." I'm sure she was thorughly assured that people she helped to convict are guilty anyways. They just needed cherry on top to convince the judge and/or jury.
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