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Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

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Re: Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

#51

Post by eropple »

da_n wrote: post #47
eropple wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how Android's choice of default applications implies less "freedom". Don't like SMS being folded into Hangouts? Use Handcent--it's better anyway. Will the Gallery app disappear? Use QuickPic--it's better anyway. Don't like the new launcher? There's Nova and Apex and Smart and a dozen other really good choices. (They're better anyway, too!) And if that's not enough for you, sure, go try something else, but…

I know there alternatives but my problem is with the direction Google are taking Android and the fact they are abandoning existing open apps and replacing them with closed-source ones. More and more apps will not function either because they rely on Google Play Services, so trying to go around the issue by using OSS apps (such as through F-Droid) will only be feasible for so long, eventually Google will have so much…

That is a mighty slippery slope you're positing, sir, but good luck with your alternatives.

Re: Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

#52

Post by panzi »

rzr wrote: post #29
peterdelahaye wrote: post #17

Maemo, Moblin, LiMo, Bada, MeeGo, mer, Tizen, Tizen NG, Nemo Mobile, Sailfish OS... This is tragic. All this effort gone into endless, pointless rebranding and new website designs instead of new code.

What's tizen-ng ? note android did not design it's own kernel they just rebranded it :)

Android (Google) did not rebrand the kernel, they just don't mention it.

Re: Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

#53

Post by berdario »

eropple wrote: post #50
berdario wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a different idea of "freedom" than we do The problem is not bundling in closed-source applications... the problem is removing (and thus stopping development) of the previously-default open source applications Are Nova, Apex and Smart OSS? I looked at their web pages, but I don't see any link to the sources basically: you still have freedom 0 (and possibly freedom 2, if you're willing to go against the EULA).…

Yes, I do have a very different definition than you do, which is what makes your almost-begging-the-question rhetorical adoption of the implicit redefinition of freedom as Those Enumerated By Richard Stallman...well, kind of funny. On the other hand, I will enjoy my freedom to use software without concerns of ideological purity because I have alternatives if I don't like them. Nothing stops you from writing your own…

Actually, I'm nowhere "ideologically pure" as you think I am.

I'm still using my google-sanctioned stock android, and I routinely use some sort of closed source software...

My point was more like: I'm using google-android now, out of convenience, but I stopped strictly seeing Android releases[1] as improvements (and thus I _might_ refrain to use KitKat... if I'll move to a google-less cyanogenmod or to Ubuntu or Jolla I still don't know)

Also, My intention was not to be rhetoric: I just found Stallman definitions of freedom useful in this context to understand what some people are complaining about

[1] as in "Android used on Nexus", compared to AOSP

Re: Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

#54

Post by dingaling »

Nursie wrote: post #36
sbt wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I regret buying a Samsung S4 because it is loaded with so much crap. First, Google preloads their crap onto it, then Samsung preloads their crap ontop of that. THEN, AT&T decides that it should also provide you with messaging apps etc, so it preloads it crap ontop of that too. I am re-asked every god damn day if I want to connect the Samsung whatever the fuck (tm) to Facebook, and I refuse, EVERY DAY. I have no…

Root it, use something like SDMaid to lock out the annoying apps. Done. No idea if this voids your warranty, but I buy phones upfront and unsubsidised anyway so it's less of a concern.

Other than the principle that the user shouldn't have to wage war on his own phone, rooted phones are usually also blocked from corporate networks.

Re: Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

#55

Post by fidotron »

da_n wrote: post #33

I've already decided looking at 4.4 that I will do as much as possible to avoid Android for my next phone. I am interested in Jolla, but not as convinced about them being truly open as Mozilla is etc, they need to convince me better of their real motives and philosophy. Google have become very clear, now that they have decided to close almost everything on Android, no more SMS app, Google Now baked into the launcher,…

The non-optional-ness of Google Now if you expect Maps to actually function properly is the single most irritating thing Google have ever done. They're basically saying you have to consent to us slurping all of your info in order to use any of our services. The net result is I'm now always looking for alternatives.

If I was a Shuttleworth type character I would throw my money into creating a Google-free Android with full on replacements for Maps, Gmail, Calendar and the Play Store. Frankly, Microsoft should probably do this - throw away Windows Phone and produce a bundle of Android apps that give you top class maps and Exchange server integration.

Re: Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

#56

Post by fidotron »

nezza-_- wrote: post #48
fidotron wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite likely to be your carrier, not that Samsung are beyond reproach (TouchWiz as a selling point?), but a lot of the bundled apps you should blame your carrier for. Nokia's reputation of old in Europe was based on the fact for a long time they were the only manufacturer to tell operators to [guess] themselves and sell relatively clean devices to end users. In the US they never did this, with the result that…

Samsung: My unbranded German S3 came with shit like delivery-service apps etc. Nokia: I don't think that the things you say about their reputation is true (for German), in Germany Nokia phones had carrier crapware like all the other phones too.

From about 2002/2003, yes, but by then the operators were messing the manufacturers around. Nokia's golden era was approximately 96-2002 before this and the S60 mess really bit.

Vodafone went as far as commissioning handsets directly from co-operative manufacturers and this changed the game completely as the message was heard that unless you play their game you aren't getting sold.

Only the deal Apple got from AT&T remotely affected this status quo. Android was originally designed for precisely the kind of operator customisation we're complaining about, as is Firefox OS, but it's only thanks to Apple (and I loathe the way iOS has gone) that we have any choice about this stuff at all. The fact it took them to stir things up is justifiably embarrassing to the telecoms industry.

Re: Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

#57

Post by kvtrew76557 »

fidotron wrote: post #55
da_n wrote: post #33

I've already decided looking at 4.4 that I will do as much as possible to avoid Android for my next phone. I am interested in Jolla, but not as convinced about them being truly open as Mozilla is etc, they need to convince me better of their real motives and philosophy. Google have become very clear, now that they have decided to close almost everything on Android, no more SMS app, Google Now baked into the launcher,…

The non-optional-ness of Google Now if you expect Maps to actually function properly is the single most irritating thing Google have ever done. They're basically saying you have to consent to us slurping all of your info in order to use any of our services. The net result is I'm now always looking for alternatives. If I was a Shuttleworth type character I would throw my money into creating a Google-free Android with…

Google seems to have really lost the plot lately, forcing their policies and updates down our throats.

Re: Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

#58

Post by contingencies »

Firefox OS aims to be open, targeting the whole world including developing countries. (Where there's still growth)

Jolla is Nordic people trying desperately to maintain a mobile industry. (Targeting existing consumers, who are well catered for)

I know which I'm developing for.

Re: Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

#59

Post by Brakenshire »

devcpp wrote: post #38
da_n wrote: post #33

I've already decided looking at 4.4 that I will do as much as possible to avoid Android for my next phone. I am interested in Jolla, but not as convinced about them being truly open as Mozilla is etc, they need to convince me better of their real motives and philosophy. Google have become very clear, now that they have decided to close almost everything on Android, no more SMS app, Google Now baked into the launcher,…

Very legitimate concern. Jolla is a company that strives for profit, unlike Mozilla. And as such we can't expect them to have the same motives to keep their platform free. However, Mozilla also doesn't have the same influence, because of that, and makes pretty weak phones.

Jolla have said themselves that they might not attempt to grow quickly as a monolith, but more slowly, and be the centre of many smaller organizations. The original owners have maintained control in order to do that. Bear in mind that the company was born out of the chaos of high finance maneouvring at Nokia.

Re: Jolla CEO: You will soon be able turn your Android device into a Sailfish device

#60

Post by Zigurd »

fidotron wrote: post #55
da_n wrote: post #33

I've already decided looking at 4.4 that I will do as much as possible to avoid Android for my next phone. I am interested in Jolla, but not as convinced about them being truly open as Mozilla is etc, they need to convince me better of their real motives and philosophy. Google have become very clear, now that they have decided to close almost everything on Android, no more SMS app, Google Now baked into the launcher,…

The non-optional-ness of Google Now if you expect Maps to actually function properly is the single most irritating thing Google have ever done. They're basically saying you have to consent to us slurping all of your info in order to use any of our services. The net result is I'm now always looking for alternatives. If I was a Shuttleworth type character I would throw my money into creating a Google-free Android with…

If I was running any open source Linux distro I would sell the hell out of being able to audit and build the source code, and modify it to include voice encryption on phone devices that enable access to the audio path.

There has to be a huge government market for secure phones. VoLTE will do a lot to enable secure voice by enabling implementation of more of the audio path in the smartphone CPU.

Secure phones, tablets, PCs, routers, etc. all seem like a market poised to take off, yet I don't see a move by the 1st tier Linux distros.

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