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A Prediction: Bitcoin Is Doomed to Fail

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Re: A Prediction: Bitcoin Is Doomed to Fail

#301
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because Bitcoins are relatively easy to buy and very difficult to cash out into real currency. Once enough people see how hard it is to liquidate their Bitcoins back to USD the realization will follow.

Sounds like nonsense to me: if you buy 1 BTC from me, then at the same time I've sold 1 BTC? That makes it by definition as equally hard (or easy) to buy as to sell?

No.

Try buying an iPhone 3g right now on Craigslist. I bet it takes you all of two minutes.

Then try selling it. I bet it takes quite a bit more time.

Asymmetry.

Re: A Prediction: Bitcoin Is Doomed to Fail

#302
post #175
post #156

My prediction is that bitcoins are midway through a short-lived bubble and then rapidly fall to approximately 0, and in a few years people will look back with the disbelief now reserved for pets.com. The hype - get in right now and get rich, or you'll miss out and kick yourself - reminds me of 1999. My in-laws were talking about bitcoins yesterday, so bitcoins are getting the attention of the public at large; I take…

I wish there was a reputable market for shorting bitcoins. It'd be nice to earn some interest on my long position while providing the naysayers a chance to bet against it. It'd also help with the volatility.

I would be very happy if there was bitcoin shorting. It would become less volatile so we could actually use it for stuff without guessing if we are getting a 10% discount or 10% haircut compared to the next day. If there were a reputable market that did bitcoin futures I would take a very long position in bitcoin because that would make it useful for commerce and therefore incredibly valuable.

Re: A Prediction: Bitcoin Is Doomed to Fail

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they can sure set them, and then no one would use them. do you not understand money? what are you, the owner of 100btc going to do: a) buy $100usd worth of goods at ebay directly b) cash out at a proper exchange for $100,000usd, then buy $100usb worth of goods on ebay and have $99,900usd left over? or cash out ONE btc for $1000usd, buy $100usd of goods and have $900 usd left over AND 99btc? How do you expect any even…

In any financial exchange, both parties, the buyer and seller, need to come to agreement on a price. Given the fact that current BTC to USD exchange volume is fairly small, it wouldn't take that many large global goods and service providers pegging their BTC/USD exchange rate to cause the speculation market to collapse. Those that recently bought their Bitcoins at $900 would sell below the current high price to reali…

You don't seem to grasp the basic concept of markets.

Issuing more buy orders cannot cause a drop in price.

In your scenario, you propose that large businesses around the world issue a practically limitless number of buy orders on BTC, supposedly at a low-balled price, supposedly inducing people to fulfill those orders...

You can't affect the price of anything buy flooding the market with an enormous number of low-balling buy orders. You can create a floor, but that puts a lower bound on how far bitcoins can call - it doesn't induce the fall.

Re: A Prediction: Bitcoin Is Doomed to Fail

#304
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my god this is psychotic. i'm sorry, i try to be polite but.... jesus. i am 1000% confident that this particular bitcoin implementation of global currency is worth less than $12 billion USD. you are treating this currency like we are dividing up slices of the world money supply. We are not. People are paying $1000 and basically receiving an IOU from no one, with the hope they will be able to sell to future speculator…

Is there any chance of you giving it a rest? We get it. You think Bitcoin and Bitcoiners are stupid. You passed Intro to Econ in college. You've drawn completely arbitrary lines in the sand and given nothing to justify them but emotional appeal. You, like many others, seem to waltz into every thread thinking that you've just independently come up with the fatal flaw of Bitcoin as it chugs along it's third year of exi…

Eh I get where you're coming from, but I'm tired of this shit too. this one really got to me. It's not that I think Bitcoiners are stupid, it's a combination of a few things --

All these threads are "Yay Bitcoin reached a new price plateau, proof that it's perfect!". So finally they pick an article that says it's a mess, but the thing is it's pretty much the dumbest article ever.

So then the Bitcoiners use it as a straw man, coming on saying "See this article's author is dumb he doesn't have our enlightened view of economics.... If you divide all the world's money by the number of Bitcoins I'm so rich!!!"

I'm sorry but even 3 years existence proves nothing, as there are many screwed up things in history with longer lifespans than that.

So yeah I'm frustrated as hell because this is pretty much the spam of the tech world now but it's front page news on HN every 20 minutes with some new story like "Researchers believe Bitcoin founder once visited zoo in Denmark". One could argue that it is a cargo cult, one could argue that it is a success, a failure. Many things could be argued.

The one thing that I think is for sure is that this whole phenomenon is tabloid-esque garbage that is mostly servicing greedy arrogant Bitcoin holders and their machine, since publicity seems to be one of the only true price correlates (nothin odd about that, huh?). I'm probly gonna get off this bent just because it's not worth the time but without the detractors Bitcoin is just like a digital Jonestown - every post is met with more mindless optimism and every criticism with a response that is a complete non-sequitur followed by boo-hooing about hurt feelings and poor etiquette. I'm not on an online forum to get popular agreeing with everyone I'm here to test the waters and see what kind of knowledge is floating around.

Those I've had arguments with fail to articulate even simple points. For example -- I agree that using a highly divisible currency is good. That was, in fact, my point. My issue is that a frequent explanation for the rapid price increase is "Well it's natural that the coins are going to gain a lot of value. Heck, maybe Bitcoin will surge in the real estate market and 1 coin will be worth a whole house!". With a highly divisible currency, why would the unit price have to increase to represent some arbitrary figure in the market (a house in this case). Because it seems logical to people? Because there are only a limited number of Bitcoins in circulation so of course there is scarcity and rather than using a different currency that can release more we simply have to bid the price up because "well, SN is god after all"?

If anything the fact that I want to argue should show that I do respect the potential of the community in that I actually want to take my time to interact with them. It shows that I give them the benefit of the doubt that even though I disagree I still think "well let's not write it off as a cult just yet". But when I get responses that are as cock-eyed and zombie-ish as the one above ("why analyze supply and demand curve when soon the entire planet will soon be bitcoin?!! i will own your country merely for investing now.") i will probably continue to lose my shit. So yes, I will need to stop looking.

Re: A Prediction: Bitcoin Is Doomed to Fail

#306
Bitcoin is revolutionary. THAT is most likely true.

Is it doomed to fail? Perhaps it is, but things are not quite as grim.

Here is what is likely to happen as a result of bitcoin: 1. The future of banking transaction fees is bleak - The current financial systems will get threatened and adapt. Here bitcoin will succeed. 2. Bitcoin is used as proof of concept and paves the way for a world currency, think euro but global.

The two points above are definitely wins. If you have any problems with those playing out, its likely you have the same concerns about bitcoin and just haven't realized it yet.

Here is what would likely happen to bitcoin v1, it will fail to become a real currency.

Its currently morphing into a speculative store of value. I'd like to say its like tulips, but I'd be wrong, as it is definitely more useful than tulips. On the speculation front it may play out like the tulip mania/bubble, but I hope I'm wrong about that.

The reason for it to fail as a currency is the very reason for the spike in interest at the moment. Exchange rates seem to be soaring and may continue to soar which would make people vary of buying some thing worth $1000 USD for 1btc if there is a possibility that deferring a purchase by a couple of days could offer a notion discount of x% from the hope of the value of btc increasing. If you could wait a few days for the purchase and buy the $1000 item for 0.8btc, who wouldn't wait?

On the flip-side, if you bought 1btc for $1000 to buy something but the value of btc suffered a temporary squeeze to the effect that 1btc = $800, hence the same item now costs you 1.25btc or 25% premium to what you were willing to pay. Hence who would be willing to pay extra if you were sure the value of btc would rise?

This applies to all commercial transactions. In 90%+ of cases people will likely defer spending btc unless the value was at the same level +/- 5% as their purchase price.

Bitcoin as a currency/for commerce will leave every consumer in a constant state of buyers remorse and THAT will be the real reason for its failure.

Re: A Prediction: Bitcoin Is Doomed to Fail

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoins are a currency, there's no need to convert them Yes, unless you want to, you know, buy something...

I suppose there's nothing I'd ever want to buy from one of the merchants advertising here: http://www.bitcoinblackfriday.com/

Woo, bacon lollipops, server hosting, and pizza. Truly the essentials.

You need grocery stores, gas stations, clothing stores, and restaurants to start accepting it. Until then, it's really just a novelty for middle class college Libertarians.

Re: A Prediction: Bitcoin Is Doomed to Fail

#309
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my god this is psychotic. i'm sorry, i try to be polite but.... jesus. i am 1000% confident that this particular bitcoin implementation of global currency is worth less than $12 billion USD. you are treating this currency like we are dividing up slices of the world money supply. We are not. People are paying $1000 and basically receiving an IOU from no one, with the hope they will be able to sell to future speculator…

Is there any chance of you giving it a rest? We get it. You think Bitcoin and Bitcoiners are stupid. You passed Intro to Econ in college. You've drawn completely arbitrary lines in the sand and given nothing to justify them but emotional appeal. You, like many others, seem to waltz into every thread thinking that you've just independently come up with the fatal flaw of Bitcoin as it chugs along it's third year of exi…

Also if you want to be more interactive than your peers, will you answer a scenario for me? Now, I am actually asking for your opinion on this, not being a smart-ass. Ready? Let's go.

If we had a bunch of "units" of something we have 1 each and there are 10 total. We use them to buy melons and each 1 is roughly valued as 1 melon. Then people see the success our new system is having and want to use our units to buy melons as well. So, one of the 10 friends decides its a smart idea to sell his unit for 2 melons to someone who really wants to be a part of our cool club. The next day someone else sells their unit for 4 melons because even more people want in.

Is every unit now worth 4 melons now just because someone sold one for 4 melons to an outside trader? If I go to the store where I used to buy a melon for 1 unit and tell them now that I think I deserve 4 melons for a unit, what will they say?

Explain to me how you think storeowners should react or how Bitcoin is unlike this. Sincerely, I will listen as best I can.

Re: A Prediction: Bitcoin Is Doomed to Fail

#310
post #99
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how bitcoin can discern vicarious liability. You're still going to need lawyers. Please explain how a bitcoin blockchain record can testify in court that a copy of a document is authentic. Hint, you're infront of a jury, you have a blockchain hash, and opposing council has a notary public with 40 years of experience, both copies of the document differ, the original cannot be found. Hers has an official…

Do you remember when computers used to take whole rooms and apparently "Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons." and "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." Now iam replying to this from a phone Just saying technologies improve over time, bitcoin is a very interesting mix of technologies, probably the most exciting thing to come along since email, web, bittorent and social ne…

The most exciting thing since the web? Really? It's an interesting technology, but let's not forget Foursquare launched the same year and has had more of an impact on business, and Instagram launched a year after and has had more of an impact on the general population.
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