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CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

cyanogenmod.org

81–90 of 197 posts

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#81
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that you cant install without voiding warranties So you think that a user should be able install an OS that bricks their phone and still have the phone still covered by warranty? How does that make sense? Is this people's expectation of Google, that if they don't give you whatever you want (at their own expense) then they are like 90s Microsoft?

>So you think that a user should be able install an OS that bricks their phone and still have the phone still covered by warranty? Yes >How does that make sense? It makes sense the same way that installing Linux and/or wiping Windows doesn't void a PCs warranty. Should users be allowed to install any programs including keylogging malware on Windows computers? Shouldn't Microsoft protect them by locking it down so tha…

> It makes sense the same way that installing Linux and/or wiping Windows > doesn't void a PCs warranty.

Have you ever actually tried getting warranty support for a Windows PC you installed Linux on? The last time I tried even just mentioning the word "Linux" was enough to get many support departments to drop you like a hot potato. In my experience, the minimum bar for support is keeping around a Windows partition and any diagnostic/recovery partitions they have, whether or not you want them otherwise. If you're unlucky, you'll have to blow away your Linux install even if it's completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Modded Windows PCs are easier to deal with because you can usually erase all traces of Linux/other OSes if you need to for support (no eFuses and similar nonsense), but the on-the-ground support policies aren't all that different from modded phones.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#82
post #45
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is only one person whose phone is rendered unusable and not many as you insinuate. Same thing happened with PS4 launch when people reported issues, but statistic turned out to be http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/android-roms-the-easy...

Browse the support forums of carries and device makers and you'll find plenty of such testimonials. They would brick their devices and find themselves without warranty, which is not exactly an ideal situation.

It's not unheard of, but extremely rare to "brick" modern phones. Four years ago, when you had to replace the bootloader you could flash something that would "brick" a device to the point that only JTAG could fix it, but that hasn't been typical since the Nexus One. More commonly you can still access fastboot or ODIN and restore a system image which returns the device to a stock OS. This isn't ideal for non-tech savvy users, but it is a recoverable state.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#83
post #35
post #28

With the CM Installer in the play store many lay-people started using it, rendering their phones unusable[1] when any little issue cropped up. Also the process wasn't foolproof even for people capable of dealing with technical issues[2]. It isn't polished enough to go in the play store IMO. I don't know WTF the cyanogenmod team was thinking, non-technical people messing with CM will just lead to negative press. 1: ht…

But that is only one person whose phone is rendered unusable and not many as you insinuate. Same thing happened with PS4 launch when people reported issues, but statistic turned out to be http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/android-roms-the-easy...

I tried it on my girlfriends S2; we followed the directions precisely but we got some odd error messages about the device not being found, and the phone stopped being able to boot. Had to go through a "normal" Cyanogen installation procedure to get it working again; not hard for me but nothing you want a non-technical person going through (hence why the installer exists).

I have no idea what the percentage of people having problems is, but it certainly happened to more than one person...

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#85
post #38
post #15

It seems like no matter how blatantly Google carries out it's updated "Microsoft from the 1990's" act there will be a coterie of apologists on HN explaining away it's actions. The Cold War provided an appropriate label for this crowd: "useful idiots".

The funny thing is that many of the same people you talk about were vehemently against UEFI Secure Boot on Windows 8 being on by default although it actually protects tens of millions of normal users from undetectable rootkits and bootkits because it made installing Linux slightly more difficult by needing to fiddle with the boot settings. Now the reason being given for this removal is that it needs root(a lot of app…

The installer itself doesn't require root and that isn't why it was pulled. It was pulled because trying to install an unapproved OS on the device may have left the device in a state that non-technical users may not know how to fix. when their device is now "broken" manufactures say that installing the unapproved OS voids the warranty. The finger pointing goes back to Google for allowing an application in the Play Store that voids warranties. Since no application on the Play Store should break a user's device, they asked CyanogenMod to remove the application.

This in no way is meant to prevent users from voiding their warranty, users can still side load the application or they can use more traditional ways of installing a custom ROM. I'm not sure why this decision is ruffling feathers. CyanogenMod has over a million installs to date, and is still thriving. The installer made things a little less complicated, but removing it from the Play Store won't really slow them down.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a rule in the TOS doesn't make it right. And you are right, it's not 90s-Microsoft, it's worse. I'd say it's reasonable to believe that vast majority of average users _never_ acquire software outside of the walled gardens of Mirosoft, Google, and Apple's app stores. There sure are benefits to these walled gardens, but the loss of freedom to corporate whim should be a very serious concern to everyone here.

What freedoms were lost, exactly?

The freedom to install the software of your choosing? The freedom to actually own your own computer? Seriously?

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#87
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let me see... google and the open handset aliance advertise an open source OS, that you cant install without voiding warranties and bending to proprietary radio and firmware code. just like pc manufacturers of the 80/90s (bios was reverse engineered from IBM and then tightly controled by ami. it only looked slighly open because IBM was much more closed. same with android standing next to apple.

If I download instructions to hotrod my lawnmower, and then engine block cracks when the head gasket blows out, should I blame Toro for not locking down my lawnmower?

But in this case Toro used to host those instructions on its website.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#88
post #35
post #28

With the CM Installer in the play store many lay-people started using it, rendering their phones unusable[1] when any little issue cropped up. Also the process wasn't foolproof even for people capable of dealing with technical issues[2]. It isn't polished enough to go in the play store IMO. I don't know WTF the cyanogenmod team was thinking, non-technical people messing with CM will just lead to negative press. 1: ht…

But that is only one person whose phone is rendered unusable and not many as you insinuate. Same thing happened with PS4 launch when people reported issues, but statistic turned out to be http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/android-roms-the-easy...

If an app bricks one phone in ten thousand, that's too much for the Play store. That doesn't mean the package can't exist outside of the Play store.

In fact, the ability to install something outside of the Play store framework seems like one good test for whether someone is ready to make the jump.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always about the end user? Like when Apple said that all Apps needed to be originally written in their crappy language, and that you could not cross-compile to it? That had literally nothing to do with the end user, and everything to do with trying to enforce a monopoly.

Apple said that, but never enforced it. So that piece of policy was more a fallback (i.e., "something we can point at if an app happens to do something we didn't anticipate"). And it was eventually removed (hence my comment about Apple lessening some of their control over time). Most of Apple's decisions are about the end user, often to the detriment of the developer. Mandatory app review, Apple deals entirely with c…

Looking where Apple is now, that decision helped them, but I don't think you are making a case that it helped consumers. There are countless ways that Apple stifled competition when 3rd party applications compete directly with the applications Apple ships OOTB.

The unified in-app purchase has benefits, but it also comes with strings attached. The 30% rake means that either users pay for the markup or developers must eat that overhead. By locking application developers out of rolling their own in-house solutions, consumers suffer. That decision may benefit consumers by presenting a unified interface, but it has everything to do with making Apple more money. If Apple really had it's users in mind, they could have simply created an API that provides the unified interface but allows developers to hook in their own back end processing. Better yet, allow in-app purchases that don't have the 30% markup. This will never happen because at the end of the day Apple is looking out for themselves, not the users of their devices.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#90
post #77

Customers buy a phone. That phone is loaded with terrible, awful, software and unpleasant branding. Customers want to remove that software and that branding. One way is to use scary software like Cyanogenmod. There is not other way. Maybe Google and customers need to start pressuring carriers to stop loading phones with this awful software?

Maybe customers should stop buying awful software? There are plenty of offerings, including Google's own phone. What more can Google do? Close off Android to crapware providers and they'll have the wrath of the community donning their pitchforks. This thread alone should be an example of how irrational some folks are, crying fowl at Google for not wanting brickware in their store.
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