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I Hope My Father Dies Soon

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Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#161

Post by gohrt »

spindritf wrote: post #68
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

> The religion is notably fascinated with martyrdom Martyrdom and suicide are nothing alike. To a Christian at least. About the same time I read a solemn flippancy by some free thinker: he said that a suicide was only the same as a martyr. The open fallacy of this helped to clear the question. Obviously a suicide is the opposite of a martyr. A martyr is a man who cares so much for something outside him, that he forge…

Right. Auto-euthanasia is martyrdom to let the living (family/friends/community) start living their lives again instead of waiting for the ill to die.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#162

Post by gohrt »

tsotha wrote: post #149
jbooth wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm folding "crass political appeal to the religious rubes" under religion for that particular case. EDIT: Her parents obviously had different motivations than religion. The 10,000,000 politicians and talking heads? Either religion or political exploitation related to religion.

Her husband was already in a relationship with another woman, who he wished to marry. His memory was the only source for her supposed wishes, and he was the one pushing to end her life. You don't have to be a religious fanatic to see a problem here.

Does a coma preclude divorce?

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#163

Post by gohrt »

jlgaddis wrote: post #108
JshWright wrote: post #19

As broken as our system is (and Scott's obvious pain should make it clear that it _is_ broken), there are things you can do to make it suck just a little less. Please talk to your family and your doctor about your wishes in terms of life-sustaining care. Even in your 20's, in perfect health, please take some time to become informed about what the options are and how you can express what you want done or not done (thi…

Recently, I dated a nurse who worked on the cardiac floor of the hospital. She had patients who died every day. One day, the subject of DNRs came up. Interestingly, she mentioned that "they're meaningless". When I asked her about it, she said that if, for example, I had a DNR but an immediately family member told them to "save me", they would disregard the DNR and do it. The reasoning, she told me, was that regardles…

Sure, but that reasoning applies in an emergency. After the emergency, once the patient stabilizes (perhaps unconscious), the paperwork can be reviewed carefully and a final decision made.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#164

Post by gohrt »

JshWright wrote: post #114
jlgaddis wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently, I dated a nurse who worked on the cardiac floor of the hospital. She had patients who died every day. One day, the subject of DNRs came up. Interestingly, she mentioned that "they're meaningless". When I asked her about it, she said that if, for example, I had a DNR but an immediately family member told them to "save me", they would disregard the DNR and do it. The reasoning, she told me, was that regardles…

I'm in a similar position on a fairly regular basis, and I can tall you that DNRs absolutely do matter. It would take the threat of physical violence to get me to perform ACLS on someone with a valid DNR (this is in a prehospital EMS setting). A DNR represents the expressed wishes of the patient. Disregarding that is a serious breach of medical this. I'm not sure how often she came across that particular dilemma. As…

As a pre-hospital EMS provider, how do you have time to determine the presence and validity of a DNR before making your choice?

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#166

Post by jellicle »

jbooth wrote: post #133
tsotha wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're oversimplifying. There were a lot of people on both sides who had reasons other than religion.

I'm folding "crass political appeal to the religious rubes" under religion for that particular case. EDIT: Her parents obviously had different motivations than religion. The 10,000,000 politicians and talking heads? Either religion or political exploitation related to religion.

> Her parents obviously had different motivations than religion

Actually, Schiavo's family were all extremely devout right-to-life Catholics.

As should be obvious to even the casual observer, no, there wasn't anyone on the side of keeping the brain-dead vegetable plugged in except for people with particular religious views. Unfortunately there were a lot of such people in the U.S.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#167

Post by brownbat »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

There's another wrinkle from history. Depressed medieval Christians would avoid suicide, with its attendant eternal hellfires, by murdering children.

That's right, murdering children. The innocents, they believed, would ascend to heaven. The murderer would be able to apologize for the murder and receive last rites from the Church before the State put them to death for their crime.

They would die, go to heaven, and take someone along with them. It was a win for everyone, aside from the delusional bit, where it was all actually a horrific tragedy.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/473/t...

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#168

Post by jbooth »

jellicle wrote: post #166
jbooth wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm folding "crass political appeal to the religious rubes" under religion for that particular case. EDIT: Her parents obviously had different motivations than religion. The 10,000,000 politicians and talking heads? Either religion or political exploitation related to religion.

> Her parents obviously had different motivations than religion Actually, Schiavo's family were all extremely devout right-to-life Catholics. As should be obvious to even the casual observer, no, there wasn't anyone on the side of keeping the brain-dead vegetable plugged in except for people with particular religious views. Unfortunately there were a lot of such people in the U.S.

Yeah, but it's their frickin daughter. I think we can give the two of them a pass for having a hard time letting go.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#169

Post by [deleted] »

gohrt wrote: post #162
tsotha wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her husband was already in a relationship with another woman, who he wished to marry. His memory was the only source for her supposed wishes, and he was the one pushing to end her life. You don't have to be a religious fanatic to see a problem here.

Does a coma preclude divorce?

[deleted]

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#170

Post by jbooth »

tsotha wrote: post #149
jbooth wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm folding "crass political appeal to the religious rubes" under religion for that particular case. EDIT: Her parents obviously had different motivations than religion. The 10,000,000 politicians and talking heads? Either religion or political exploitation related to religion.

Her husband was already in a relationship with another woman, who he wished to marry. His memory was the only source for her supposed wishes, and he was the one pushing to end her life. You don't have to be a religious fanatic to see a problem here.

So we're not talking about the religious motivations of the bazillion people who never even met the woman anymore? We're attempting to impugn the husband's motives by implying he wanted her dead so he could date someone else? How does that even work, why would he need her dead?
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