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I Hope My Father Dies Soon

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Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#121

Post by cLeEOGPw »

melling wrote: post #13

The Singularity is about 30 years out, or so we're led to believe. It takes about 10 years and billions of dollars to create a new drug, and that time and cost is not decreasing. Stories like this are a grim reminder of how much work we really must do. "Fixing" the human body is a really hard problem.

There is no problem at all. Wanting to live forever is just your body's primitive instinct, and you should be intelligent enough to understand that people don't need you, or anyone, being around for longer than you will live already. Just look at the current old people - how they drag the whole progress, the whole society back. Now Imagine what would happen if everyone would be old - stagnation, that's what. Human brain is not evolved enough to keep being fresh for so long. After some time we slow down our learning rate because we have already learned much things. If everyone would live forever we would stay at the exact generation the "singularity" would be invented. People need to die in order for everyone to push things forward.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#122

Post by loup-vaillant »

mortyseinfeld wrote: post #93
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

You talk a lot about the "christian right", and I would agree with you on this particular case, but the "socialist left" is far more intrusive in our lives than the "christian right" is. Get the government out our lives and stop pretending that we need the government to be our nanny.

Have you envisioned in detail what a government that "isn't our nanny" would look like? Have you visualized the consequences of a transition to such a government?

Personally, while I agree governments screw a lot of things up, I have to recognize they have many advantages. Private property for instance often needs a strong government to be properly enforced.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#123

Post by PavlovsCat »

Houshalter wrote: post #100
jl6 wrote: post #90

I don't wish to minimise his situation but it seems like he considers his father's suffering not quite as bad as his own suffering were he just to do the killing himself and take the jail sentence.

That's a good point actually. Especially if you could do it with low risk of being caught/convicted. Which should be possible with someone who is dying anyways and you have full access to them in the hospital and could just slip some poison or something into them. I don't blame the author for not doing that though. Maybe it didn't even occur to him. But it's a good point that if you truly thought it was so terrible y…

But there is also the risk of inflicting even more suffering. Even killing (instead of, say, crippling) oneself with all the time and resources in the world to do it is not an easy task; but killing someone you love, without inflicting even more pain and without getting caught, in a hospital of all places, now that seems near impossible for a layperson.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#124

Post by omegaworks »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #49
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

> the Christian right insists that the agony be prolonged to a maximum I'm not aware of anyone of any ideological stripe who insists disproportionate medical measures must be taken to keep somebody alive. On the other hand, the Hippocratic oath far predates Christ. By the way, I'm not sure you understand Christianity's relationship to the bible. It's a small minority of Christians who subscribe to anything like the s…

It doesn't matter what the scriptures say when the religion praises and sanctifies people like Mother Teresa. Suffering-worship is alive and well in Catholic practices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/04/mother-teresa-myth_...

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#125

Post by stickhandle »

eitland wrote: post #60
stickhandle wrote: post #42

Please HN don't disappoint me with "slippery slope" and "it's too complicated" arguments. I want to continue to believe the level of discourse here is better than that. Its not just do-able ... doctor-assisted suicide is right.

Yes, because slippery slopes doesn't exist. Or because we should not discuss the implications of a possible slippery slope? Note I'm not telling you what is right or wrong but I insist on the right to discuss relevant issues, in ethnic as well as in technical questions.

Slippery slopes certainly exist. However, the use of "slippery slopes" as a counterpoint is not useful. In fact, its harmful as it is posed as an end to the argument. We can certainly all agree its a complicated issue that requires a complicated solution, but our discourse should be on the solution, not simply stopping calling it slippery.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#126

Post by burntsushi »

badman_ting wrote: post #76

Sorry, but I am getting really tired of this form of discourse. A million interests prevent you from doing a million things every day, but apparently it's only objectionable and worth remarking about when it's the government. And it's not even like I disagree with him -- yes we should allow assisted suicide. But boy oh boy is it hard not to notice that he wastes no time thinking about why things are this way, or whic…

If there wasn't a law against doctor assisted suicide, he'd be able to let his father die as he chooses.

The only entity that can make and enforce laws is government. This makes government distinct from all other entities.

Therefore, the government deserves the blame.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#127

Post by burntsushi »

rodgerd wrote: post #101
badman_ting wrote: post #76

Sorry, but I am getting really tired of this form of discourse. A million interests prevent you from doing a million things every day, but apparently it's only objectionable and worth remarking about when it's the government. And it's not even like I disagree with him -- yes we should allow assisted suicide. But boy oh boy is it hard not to notice that he wastes no time thinking about why things are this way, or whic…

If he wants to blames someone , he'd to better to blame usually religious-based lobby groups. But that wouldn't fit into his usual narratives, so I guess the government it is.

Religious based lobby groups don't force politicians to create and enforce particular laws. Politicians do it voluntarily.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#128

Post by tsotha »

jbooth wrote: post #109
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Christian right insists that the agony be prolonged to a maximum I'm not aware of anyone of any ideological stripe who insists disproportionate medical measures must be taken to keep somebody alive. On the other hand, the Hippocratic oath far predates Christ. By the way, I'm not sure you understand Christianity's relationship to the bible. It's a small minority of Christians who subscribe to anything like the s…

I take it you don't remember the Terry Schiavo thing?

You're oversimplifying. There were a lot of people on both sides who had reasons other than religion.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#129

Post by olefoo »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #120
IanDrake wrote: post #87

Reminds me of a good C.S. Lewis quote: Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approva…

Note that this quote only apply to human tyrants. As a Christian apologist, I'm sure C.S. Lewis didn't object to the benevolent tyranny of God. (I would, but I too have my own exception: Friendly AI).

And where does your "friendly-AI" draw it's moral template from?

I mean, I'm OK with an AI that works tirelessly in the background keeping the air clean and the habitat habitable. However I don't want a computer, no matter how smart; telling me what I and consenting partners choose to do. Or deciding whether or not we must or can use birth control. Or any of a thousand other forms of infringing on human agency.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#130

Post by burntsushi »

altero wrote: post #86

Follow the money Today patient has to pay lot of money to be kept alive. Also deciding about death is expensive and this burden would be on government. In a few decades elderly people will be 40% of population. Government will probably have to pay bills for most of them. Only then will this become norm, but in really hideous way.

> Also deciding about death is expensive and this burden would be on government.

Why? The burden should be on the person.

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