what pisses me off most about this is that if you, Joe Public does it, it's illegal and if you get caught, you're arrested and charged for computer fraud, espionage or whatever else they can pin on you. But it's fine for them to do the same thing. The hypocrisy is disgraceful.
NSA infected 50,000 computer networks with malicious software
51–60 of 96 posts
Re: NSA infected 50,000 computer networks with malicious software
#52what pisses me off most about this is that if you, Joe Public does it, it's illegal and if you get caught, you're arrested and charged for computer fraud, espionage or whatever else they can pin on you. But it's fine for them to do the same thing. The hypocrisy is disgraceful.
Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you King.
Re: NSA infected 50,000 computer networks with malicious software
#53We don't need the Snowden disclosures to know this; it has for 15 years been the worst kept secret in computer security. People from the various groups in NSA that do this work talk about having done it on Twitter. Some of the smartest people in vulnerability research came from stints in NSA. Be outraged that we're spying on your country if that makes you feel better, I guess. I'd rather nobody spied on each other ei…
>We don't need the Snowden disclosures to know this; it has for 15 years been the worst kept secret in computer security.
Just 1 year before, people would deny such thing occured and treat you like a conspiracy theorist, including here on HN.
>But it is intellectually dishonest to pretend that people are just now discovering that
A, the "we knew it all along so it's ok" defense -- with the "and furthermore, you should be ashamed for pretending to have learned about it just now" extension...
Re: NSA infected 50,000 computer networks with malicious software
#54We don't need the Snowden disclosures to know this; it has for 15 years been the worst kept secret in computer security. People from the various groups in NSA that do this work talk about having done it on Twitter. Some of the smartest people in vulnerability research came from stints in NSA. Be outraged that we're spying on your country if that makes you feel better, I guess. I'd rather nobody spied on each other ei…
> We don't need the Snowden disclosures to know this; it has for 15 years been the worst kept secret in computer security. Just 1 year before, people would deny such thing occured and treat you like a conspiracy theorist, including here on HN. > But it is intellectually dishonest to pretend that people are just now discovering that A, the "we knew it all along so it's ok" defense -- with the "and furthermore, you sho…
> "and furthermore, you should be ashamed for pretending to have learned about it just now"
You are wrong.
People have been saying for as long as email has existed that it is not private and that anyone can read it. People have been warning that if you have something secret you must not put it online, or that you must use sensible encryption carefully if you do so.
Risk assessment has always been part of online security considerations.
Online privacy is not a new thing. Knowing that governments have access to everything is not a new thing. Being annoyed that governments do it is a new thing.
What did you think they were doing with the huge secret budget and more computing power than anywhere else?
Re: NSA infected 50,000 computer networks with malicious software
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know anything about GCHQ, but I don't want British intelligence to have intimate details about my life stored in some nosql database, and I see it as an offensive maneuver by a foreign government from which my government fails to protect me. See my reply to tptacek's post sibling to yours for a general response to your inquiry.
Well, they do. Just like Russia and China. I agree it's offensive. Now what? Next you'll tell me governments routinely have foreigners killed.
>Well, they do. Just like Russia and China.
I seriously doubt that. Russia, for example, could not care less about 99.9% of western citizens (whereas for western spying agencies, those are potential dissidents to be kept on check).
And even if they cared, what exactly would they do with that information? It's not like they are particularly powerful, imperialist or try to play global cop (post USSR). It's also not like they arrange puppet politicians and governments in foreign countries, as western powers are known to do.
Re: NSA infected 50,000 computer networks with malicious software
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only thing I find even more fascinating than his unwavering attempt to defend the despicable actions of the NSA is how these posts end up every time as the top comments.
I don't think I've seen him defend their actions, just explain them. I, for one, appreciate it. He is in a sphere that I am not in, and were I to guess whether or not this was well-known behavior, I would have guessed not. And, apparently, I would have been wrong. So I thank tptacek for sharing what he knows that I don't know. That is, after all, why I come here.
>I don't think I've seen him defend their actions, just explain them.
Explain them as "business as usual" to take away the outrage.
Might as well have been explaining the actions of the KKK.
Re: NSA infected 50,000 computer networks with malicious software
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then let's stop deluding ourselves and make it clear that the NSA's charter is about promoting what a small number of powerful unelected beaurocrats believe to be American interests, both politically and economically [1], without significant oversight. Then we can have an honest discussion on whether or not that's a good thing. [1] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-braz...
And while we're at it, let's stop letting them wave the "but the terrorists" flag every time they justify a program for which the goal is a lot more than terrorism (assuming many programs are about terrorism at all. Personally, I suspect most programs have nothing to do with terrorism, but that there is no better way to push through support than to argue "but the terrorists").
Many attacks against USA are motivated because of actions like the ones from NSA. Other countries are starting to consider the USA an enemy to be defeated because bulshit likes this is getting shown.
If citizens of other countries start to make an outcry their leaders will make retaliations even if just for show.
Re: NSA infected 50,000 computer networks with malicious software
#58We don't need the Snowden disclosures to know this; it has for 15 years been the worst kept secret in computer security. People from the various groups in NSA that do this work talk about having done it on Twitter. Some of the smartest people in vulnerability research came from stints in NSA. Be outraged that we're spying on your country if that makes you feel better, I guess. I'd rather nobody spied on each other ei…
May I suggest a different perspective: We did need the Snowden disclosures to know this, for some value of we. A lot of members here on HN appear to realize this for the first time, and this is obviously a computer-related community. Non-technical people, considering who to vote for next time, certainly needed the Snowden disclosures to know this. The press could have picked up this story from resumes, but didn't, so the disclosures do allow for a democratic discourse on the subject, which wasn't possible earlier.
I do appreciate you sharing the fact that among computer security circles it was a well-known fact, and it's sad that you get so much hate for your informative comments.
Re: NSA infected 50,000 computer networks with malicious software
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess that makes it ok then.
Sovereign countries interact in the state of nature. Your country has a problem with the NSA? Pick up a SAT solver and build yourself some ROP shellcode and hit us back. Oh wait: your country's already doing that . Do I like it? No. We don't work with the USG, and that's one of many reasons why.
Planes in buildings are also a good choice. Many planes,
many buildings
Re: NSA infected 50,000 computer networks with malicious software
#60It's stories like this that make me wish we had the term "national security" as narrowly defined as the term "treason". I wouldn't be surprised if many of America's largest corporations most often present their corporate interests as national security interests when they are lobbying our politicians. Looking at that map, we need to be asking questions about where so many of those "implants" are located. I'm not surpr…
Given the US's covert and not so covert operations in Latin America, this comes as no surprise. Just because our goons are aren't over there making sure our economic interests are enforced doesn't mean we gave up on our stronghold.