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Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

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Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#91

Post by shalmanese »

tokenadult wrote: post #86
dfan wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rating differences at any given point in time are comparable to rating differences at another given point in time. That is, A being 200 points better than B in 2013 means the same thing as C being 200 points better than D in 1963. This is a fundamental underpinning of Arpad Elo's model. It is absolutely true that the Elo model is a relative one and does not guarantee that a given rating number represents the same abi…

Is there a mathematical proof that the Elo ratings have interval properties (so that "Rating differences at any given point in time are comparable to rating differences at another given point in time" is a surely true statement) and not just ordinal properties? I ask, because this is a hot issue in psychology, which I study, and it appears that almost all psychological "measurements" have, at best, merely ordinal pro…

It's built into the definition of the rating. A 200 point difference in rating always means that there's a 75% expected chance of the higher ELO winning. In less fluid arenas, the actual ratings can diverge from ideal ratings but there's enough matchups in chess that this isn't a huge concern.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#92

Post by klapinat0r »

jrs99 wrote: post #30
kzrdude wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allegedly Carlsen has said that he "didn't know anything about chess when I became world #1", reflecting over the amount he had learned since then. I don't understand what that can be, but I'm no chess player..

it may mean he went from being a more calculating type of player(tactical), which you can win many games with, to being a more positional type of player (strategical) which takes a much greater understanding of the game.

Would you mind to elaborate on what you mean by playing tactical vs. strategical? (part of my yearly "now I'll get started with Chess again")

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#93

Post by dragontamer »

tokenadult wrote: post #86
dfan wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rating differences at any given point in time are comparable to rating differences at another given point in time. That is, A being 200 points better than B in 2013 means the same thing as C being 200 points better than D in 1963. This is a fundamental underpinning of Arpad Elo's model. It is absolutely true that the Elo model is a relative one and does not guarantee that a given rating number represents the same abi…

Is there a mathematical proof that the Elo ratings have interval properties (so that "Rating differences at any given point in time are comparable to rating differences at another given point in time" is a surely true statement) and not just ordinal properties? I ask, because this is a hot issue in psychology, which I study, and it appears that almost all psychological "measurements" have, at best, merely ordinal pro…

It is mathemtatically proven that the Elo Rating system converges to the Bradley Terry interval rating system over time.

The difference between Elo and Bradley-Terry is that Bradley-Terry assumes to have "all" the data. So Bradley Terry is used in Psychology studies for that reason. (Eventually, you stop taking data).

Elo on the other hand, is mathematically equivalent to Bradley-Terry except with infinite data. Elo allows you to incrementally "add data" to an existing Bradley-Terry-esque model and make it more accurate.

BTW: Elo has been superceeded by superior models today, but all (good) ranking models are "interval properties" that have been derived from the Bradley Terry model from Psychology research.

See TrueSkill (which is based on Gaussian Curves, so they aren't technically Bradley-Terry but instead the Thurstone scale), Glicko, and Glicko2.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#94

Post by qq66 »

rikacomet wrote: post #20

The worst part about that match is, Anand spent 50+ minute on one move, to loose all the time advantage he had pushed carlsen into. First I thought, it was to make Carlsen loose his nerve, but he lost his own nerve, by moving Qe4, instead of slow push hh4. That was the turning point :( He went from winning position to a clear loss. Also, I don't get the point of resigning, on this level, it should be a fight till the…

Mental exhaustion or "burnout" is a very real thing. Just like many professional athletes stop trying or substitute out when their team has no hope of winning, resigning the game allows you to preserve your mental energy for your next game.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#95

Post by jkarni »

rikacomet wrote: post #20

The worst part about that match is, Anand spent 50+ minute on one move, to loose all the time advantage he had pushed carlsen into. First I thought, it was to make Carlsen loose his nerve, but he lost his own nerve, by moving Qe4, instead of slow push hh4. That was the turning point :( He went from winning position to a clear loss. Also, I don't get the point of resigning, on this level, it should be a fight till the…

First, presumably you mean Qf4, not Qe4 - there was no Qe4 in the game - and h4, not hh4. Second, you're the only chess-playing entity (human or computer) I've come across who thinks after Qf4 anyone is clearly lost (and I think it's almost as debatable that after h4 the position was winning). Third, at this level especially it's absurd to continue playing a rook down with no compensation.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#96

Post by joverholt »

kadabra9 wrote: post #80
Peroni wrote: post #72

I'm an experienced poker player however I'm an absolute chess novice. Aside from the obvious "just practice" advice, what are the best resources to fall back on in terms of books, videos etc if I wanted to learn the game in significant depth?

I know this is cliche, but I think the single most effective way to improve is to play a lot, then review your games with a player that is stronger than you and have them point out better moves you could have made, explain your thought process, etc. If you don't have a stronger player available to look at your games (I can look at a few :) ), then just replay them yourself, look for moves where the game turned toward…

I agree with reading Jeremy Silman. My first chess book was http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Chess-Player-Fred-Reinfeld/dp.... I started beating my dad after reading it! It covers some basic positional ideas (control of the center, pawn structure) and basic tactical ideas (pins, discovered check). With those two things, you can go a long ways.

Once you get a good handle on that, analyzing your own games and reviewing GM games starts to become helpful.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#97

Post by vdhus »

klapinat0r wrote: post #92
jrs99 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it may mean he went from being a more calculating type of player(tactical), which you can win many games with, to being a more positional type of player (strategical) which takes a much greater understanding of the game.

Would you mind to elaborate on what you mean by playing tactical vs. strategical? (part of my yearly "now I'll get started with Chess again")

tactical: calculating the right moves in complex situations. strategical: positional play. making sure the pieces work well together, choosing the right plan and so on

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#98

Post by vdhus »

Peroni wrote: post #72

I'm an experienced poker player however I'm an absolute chess novice. Aside from the obvious "just practice" advice, what are the best resources to fall back on in terms of books, videos etc if I wanted to learn the game in significant depth?

this guy makes great youtube-videos. fast way to learn new ideas. http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCDOQrpqLqKVcTCKzqarxLg

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#99

Post by gregwebs »

pytrin wrote: post #83
Peroni wrote: post #72

I'm an experienced poker player however I'm an absolute chess novice. Aside from the obvious "just practice" advice, what are the best resources to fall back on in terms of books, videos etc if I wanted to learn the game in significant depth?

I'd highly recommend "My System" by Aron Nimzowitsch. A deep dive into positional play instead of specific tactics http://www.amazon.com/My-System-21st-Century-Edition/dp/1880...

seconded. No single book made a greater difference in my playing level. Reading this at a relatively young age made me a far better positional player than everyone else around me.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#100

Post by logicallee »

klapinat0r wrote: post #92
jrs99 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it may mean he went from being a more calculating type of player(tactical), which you can win many games with, to being a more positional type of player (strategical) which takes a much greater understanding of the game.

Would you mind to elaborate on what you mean by playing tactical vs. strategical? (part of my yearly "now I'll get started with Chess again")

I'm no expert but here's a mid-game example.

strategical: I wonder if I can machinate to end up mostly on white squares by the end-game, then I could let his black bishop take this pawn for free, while I work on getting my pawn structure to become invincible on the other side, effectively nullifying his bishop by the end-game while opening my position for greater pressure.

tactical: how can I protect this pawn, together with the rest of my pieces, so that all lines in the next 15 moves have all pieces protected, so that he can't take anything, and defensive enough that he can't force a 'better position' in any of them, while remaining offensive enough to open up for a future attack.

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