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US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

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Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#111

Post by Jacqued »

kenkam wrote: post #35
camus2 wrote: post #32

Not surprising, there is no free speech in France. Especially when it comes to crooked banks or politicians. France is a strange country that likes to give lessons about democracy to the rest of the world, but when you look at things closer, France is closer to a monarchy than a democracy. Everything is so centralised that information usually comes from an single source of truth, that journalist dont even bother ques…

I would very much be interested in the source describing this media-politics marriage dynamic that you mention. >> Not surprising, there is no free speech in France. I don't see this as a free speech thing. I could argue there's no free speech in X. This kind of thing happens everywhere. People with money has power.

I don't think there is a serious, in-depth analysis of the situation anywhere, but here is an article [1] that reminds these facs : - the President's partner is a journalist - 2 of the main ministers (Education and Work) are married to journalists - Another mediatised one (Productive recovery) is living with another journalist

As for former cases, we had : - the minister for foreign affairs who was married to a political journalist on public television (Bernard Kouchner and Christine Ockrent) - a Minister for Industry and later Finances who was married to a journalist (DSK, later infamously evicted from the IMF, and Anne Sinclair) - a Minister for Finances who was married to an evening news presenter (Jean-Louis Borloo and Beatrice Schonberg)

These are the most notorious cases that I can recall, but there are plenty of others. It's almost always a male political leader and a female journalist.

[1] http://www.courrierinternational.com/article/2012/06/08/le-m...

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#112

Post by Symmetry »

jstalin wrote: post #44
rguillebert wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when does french-bashing need to be factually correct ?

11% growth of Euro M1 in two years begs to differ... The world is awash in printed money, not just the Eurozone and not just France is taking advantage of it.

There's a reason central bankers are always so concerned with anchoring expectations. In deciding how much money to hold onto, people and businesses make a trade off between liquidity and the cost inflation imposes on them of holding a given quantity of money. But if people's expectations regarding future inflation change, that tradeoff changes in a positive feedback cycle. If people expect more inflation then they'll want to hold less money than otherwise and in most cases this will cause more inflation[1]. If people expect less inflation than previously they'll now want to hold more money, causing further deflation.

Now, inflation expectations have clearly come unanchored because the GDP deflater, the measure of inflation most relevant to this particular effect, has been stuck closer to 1% than 2% since the financial crisis and the price spread between inflation protected and normal bonds means that the people who hold most of the M1 think this is likely to continue.

These effects are both self-limiting, the desire for liquidity isn't that strong so we only saw an 11% growth in the money supply despite inflation falling by 30%. And the inflationary spiral will quickly (but painfully) stall out if the central bank doesn't keep printing money to match demand.

Which is to say that sure, there's more cash floating around, but it's not just washing around it's being stored in people's pockets. It might be liable to cause excess inflation if the ECB ever manages to convince people that it will be able to hit its targets in the future, but it's not particularly benefiting France at the moment.

[1] In the mainstream economics sense of a rise in the price level, not the odd Austrian school definition.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#113

Post by fizz_and_buzz »

cobrausn wrote: post #94
Tloewald wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the United States never does anything outside its jurisdiction that anyone else finds annoying. That said, the level of institutionalized corruption in France is pretty outrageous. If I recall correctly, the president of France receives a truck load of cash every year which can be used with zero accountability (and that's legal ). Of course the French (and pretty much any democratic country) can look at our elec…

Yeah the United States never does anything outside its jurisdiction that anyone else finds annoying. Except we aren't talking about the US right now, we are talking about one particularly boneheaded action by France. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Well to be fair, the parent comment brought up the US not the one you are quoting.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#114

Post by antimagic »

baby wrote: post #59
camus2 wrote: post #32

Not surprising, there is no free speech in France. Especially when it comes to crooked banks or politicians. France is a strange country that likes to give lessons about democracy to the rest of the world, but when you look at things closer, France is closer to a monarchy than a democracy. Everything is so centralised that information usually comes from an single source of truth, that journalist dont even bother ques…

> Not surprising, there is no free speech in France. Entirely false, except if you mean ABSOLUTE free speech. In this case I would argue no country has one. I guess you come from the US? See : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_excep... > Especially when it comes to crooked banks or politicians. Weren't we talking about the 1% recently where you live? > France is closer to a monarchy than a democr…

You know what, I'm willing to bet that camus2 is either French, or at least French-speaking (sorry camus2, your English is awesome, way better than my French, and I have been living in France for 10 years, but still, you make mistakes sometimes...). Which makes your comment rather ridiculous, seeing as it is one big ad-hominem based on nationality...

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#115

Post by simias »

witek wrote: post #97
simias wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the situation in TFA is spectacularly ridiculous and shameful for me as a french I don't think it warrants this kind of gratuitous french bashing. Unless of course you want to explain to us what the french taxation laws have to do with this particular court decision. Also it's 75%, not 80%. That might not be very significant overall but it makes me doubt you really know what you're talking about.

I guess my comment wasn't strictly limited to this court decision but I wouldn't consider it as French-bashing. I have nothing against your country and compatriots, and I have enjoyed many fun moments there. However, I and my two French flatmates are genuinely curious how France can continue on its current public-spending/entrepreneurship-throttling trajectory.

It's an interesting discussion and I have mixed feelings about the current french "trajectory" as you put it. However I don't think this is the place to discuss politics so I'll refrain from engaging in this debate.

However I think from a hacker perspective it should be interesting to see a country that tries to do things differently from what appears to be the norm in most of the western world and whether it'll succeed or fail utterly. I know that most people on HN are big on "laissez-faire" and business deregulations but it's a bit disingenuous to present it as the solution to all problems.

We value thinking out of the box for engineering, why not for politics? "Look, a new economic system in 30 lines of socialism!".

I wish people were less adamant and more level-headed when it came to politics and economy, it's hard to have a reasonable discussion on those subjects.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#117

Post by cinquemb »

This might be pretty meta, but from looking at some of these comments makes me wonder how in the age of the internet, which give us a de facto global commons onto exchange ideas/information/currency and securely for those who take the steps to do so, some people still have an an affinity for whichever line drawn around them the sand in which one had no say in personally. Can we form something better through the aforementioned means? And what will it take for more people to start looking outside the box for solutions? More increased hardships of whimsical imposition?

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#118

Post by mavroprovato »

judk wrote: post #71
bru wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised by such a comment, but finding it on HN saddens me. xenophoby? Oh USA, building a wall to keep your neighbours out of your lawn, please tell me more! Our economy? Of course American governement-sponsored 'liberalism' is a beacon for the free world, and dissidents are morons. Please have a look at this recent article by Paul Krugman: The Plot Against France[0]. Your high-skilled French friends? I hav…

Europe has an ocean to keep most of its poorer would-be neighbors away. You can't wave away geography. The US is comparable to Europe, not one country in Europe.

Which is this ocean you are talking about? Because Europe has only the Atlantic Ocean on its West and the nearest countries on the Other side of the Atlantic are the US and Canada.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#119

Post by protomyth »

jffry wrote: post #15
gnu8 wrote: post #2

I hereby fine Société Générale 8,000 bitcoins for violating the American constitution (never mind jurisdiction since they don't care for it either), notice duly served by posting this comment in a public forum and witnessed by whoever happens to read this.

Subsequent letters will be in Navajo, and the recipient will be required to respond in Navajo

You can practice your Navajo by watching Star Wars in Navajo. Darth Vader sounds particularly scary. http://www.npr.org/2013/06/20/193496493/translated-into-nava...

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#120

Post by tbrownaw »

agilord wrote: post #93

I think Tim O'Reilly or Jeff Jarvis or Clay Shirky (unfortunately I don't have the bookmark anymore) already addressed this: The case is a prime example that what you write is not only the jurisdiction where you write it , but also the jurisdiction where people read it . (And the jurisdiction where it stored and where it is going through as network traffic.)

what you write is not only the jurisdiction

I think you a word there.

It's fairly absurd to say anyone who posts anything online should follow the laws of all places where whatever they posted could be read.

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