Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

alternet.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 375 posts

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#361

Post by asimeqi »

macfly wrote: post #345
asimeqi wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You most probably hold a British passport which is a very valuable document. Let me tell you as a holder of a not as valuable passport, who needed a visa to get anywhere, how I have seen the world. I now live in the US. Before coming to US I visited many European countries. At the border of all those European countries I was treated as a criminal. I waited very long hours while people in front of me holding same kind…

Hey, Belgian here, I've registered just to reply to your comment. > Let me tell you as a holder of a not as valuable passport [...] > Even people associated with people of my nationality [...] What's so secret about your nationality ? Your comment doesn't make any sens, you're are comparing a pre-Schengen era (which means prior 1985 - more than 25 years ago!) to a post-9/11 era. As a Belgian, I've been traveling for…

Hi,

pre-Schengen really means prior to 1995 because that's when the border controls between Schengen members were relaxed. The train trip I mentioned above happened in May 1995 but even though country A and country B were Schengen members border controls still existed between them. I don't know why that was still the case.

I believe you 100% that as a Belgian you have never been bothered by border controls. I also know that to travel to most countries you don't even need a visa. I don't know if you know what a visa is, but believe me, if you need one, it is very hard to get.

I didn't even mention how many troubles I had to get the visas for my trips since the subject of the thread is border controls. I was giving my and my friends experience as non-Belgian, non-British, non-Schengen member while traveling through Europe and then US. All I said is true and I could add plenty more. I have traveled many times and almost every time I traveled to Europe or within European countries I had humiliating experiences. Things have improved a lot now, but still there can be issues. I was transiting through Rome 5 years ago and there were so many people in line that I had to wait 1 hour to reach the border controls. Half of that waiting was outside! Yes the line extended outside the building. It was 9AM but it was already very hot. If you were there you probably wouldn't have noticed since there was a separate entrance for EU-member citizens where there was no line at all.

You should follow your childhood dreams and visit US. Do not believe everything you read. The american people are usually very nice and that includes most of the border control agents. Yes, some border control agents can be very cranky but I would be too after a long day talking to a lot of people who already believe I am their adversary and give me wisecrack answers. I am willing to bet that you wouldn't have any problem with any of them though.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#362

Post by cema »

eshvk wrote: post #341
cema wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have seemingly replaced "Israelis" with "Jewish people" whereas about 20% of Israelis are not Jewish. I think if we discuss profiling it is important to see what kind of profiling, specifically, is applied, its reasons and consequences.

And you think those non jewish Israelis (mostly Arab) are treated as anything but second class citizens. Sorry, I am not the greatest critic of Israel and probably at some level think that they are pretty damn effective at what they do. However, go open up any report on how those people are discriminated against on a day to day basis.

Yes, they are (albeit less than many people think, and much less than in the past, but still there is a long road ahead for achieving equal treatment). This, however, is tangential. The point of discussion is profiling, which may or may not be discriminatory.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#363

Post by gress »

aet wrote: post #342
gress wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still missing the point. I'm not comparing wsws to Reuters or the AP. I'm comparing it to the news outlets that take reuters and AP reports as sources which they then use to write their own articles.

There is "news" and there is "analysis" -- if you want to cite facts don't cite analysis from a publication that has a clear and stated bias. Usually the way AP and Reuters works is clients run what they write or "analyze" what they write. Why cite analysis if you want facts? Not trying to be adversarial here, just trying to understand what you are saying

All publications have a strong bias. Isn't it better to cite from those that state their bias clearly so that the reader is better able to interpret what they are reading, than from those who mislead by pretending to be 'unbiased'?

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#364

Post by bane »

fsniper wrote: post #346
bane wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the easiest question you can ask and one of the simplest security processes you can ever put in place. Let's assume you are a bad person on the no fly list. 1) Go to an airport, hang around the bathrooms in the pre-security area. Wait till somebody drops a boarding pass. Board a plane and do bad things. 2) Go to an airport, have an associate who's not on the no fly list buy a boarding pass. He gives it to you. B…

There is no need for these scenarios. I would just print out some obscure countries ID and / or passport with basic printing utilities. And a boarding pass? Does not even require any special deal.

You haven't flown in a while. Boarding passes are tied to the flight and scanned on boarding. An invalid pass means no getting on the plane. Unless you can generate a valid pass without doing any special deal you've already been thwarted by the simplest part of the security mechanism.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#365

Post by fsniper »

bane wrote: post #364
fsniper wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need for these scenarios. I would just print out some obscure countries ID and / or passport with basic printing utilities. And a boarding pass? Does not even require any special deal.

You haven't flown in a while. Boarding passes are tied to the flight and scanned on boarding. An invalid pass means no getting on the plane. Unless you can generate a valid pass without doing any special deal you've already been thwarted by the simplest part of the security mechanism.

I'm not a US citizen please give my ignorance to this.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#366

Post by abalashov »

xacaxulu wrote: post #253

I'm a US Citizen, currently living abroad. I dread going through CBP when I have to come back through the Orwellian gauntlet. It's as if anyone who wants to travel outside of the US is unpatriotic. I couldn't believe how nice and professional Mexican, Belizean and Guatemalan customs agents have treated me, especially considering the disdain and contempt a seemingly large proportion of US border officials hold for mem…

I am a naturalised citizen living abroad and feel exactly the same way on my periodic return visits.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#367

Post by VexXtreme »

Nrsolis wrote: post #358
VexXtreme wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can get rich in a place called China or in a place called Russia, but you can't criticize the government there AT ALL or you will end up in jail or dead. Or alive and wishing you were dead. Americans, rich and poor, criticize the government all the time, and don't worry about this (much). While this might've been true in the past, America has become pretty authoritarian recently. Dragnet surveillance, excessive…

C'mon man. You just belittled America with four paragraphs. You don't like America? Fine. Stay where you are. I find it LAUGHABLE that you devote pages and pages of prose to tell me why my country isn't awesome. Seriously, you're an expert right? You DEFINITELY know how things are here. I know it's fashionable to bash the US on HN, but really, why do people just keep coming here? Why is immigration such a contentious…

> You don't like America? Fine. Stay where you are.

It's not that I DON'T LIKE America, I am just disputing your claim that it's the absolute best place in the world. Your claim is ignorant, arrogant and full of hubris... even offensive to non-Americans.

> Take a look in the mirror. Everything you hate about HERE you have over THERE without the benefit of CHOICE.

Again, I don't HATE anything about America, I am just saying that there are places where a lot of issues that your country has don't exist.

Anyway, I'm done trying to have a rational discussion with you since you seem to be incapable of having one. You keep creating strawmans, moving the discussion goalposts and putting words into my mouth while deliberately avoiding addressing my points. Have fun.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#368

Post by bane »

fsniper wrote: post #365
bane wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't flown in a while. Boarding passes are tied to the flight and scanned on boarding. An invalid pass means no getting on the plane. Unless you can generate a valid pass without doing any special deal you've already been thwarted by the simplest part of the security mechanism.

I'm not a US citizen please give my ignorance to this.

They've done it the last few times I've been overseas. Just part of the normal "let's make sure people don't get confused and don't board the wrong plane" kind of thing.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#369

Post by dalore »

vixen99 wrote: post #26
Mithaldu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever heard about the Schengen Area? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

It's not really a counter example. The Eurocrats would love the peoples of Europe to be citizens of a united states of Europe (polls suggest people are not so inclined). The Schengen agreement is a logical step towards that goal and is undeniably helpful for travellers. Countries in the continent of America don't appear to have any such ambition.

Wouldn't the "United" states be similar? Each "state" of the union was like it's own country until they formed their own group. People from the USA usually identify with their state first before the country.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#370

Post by w_t_payne »

Nrsolis wrote: post #111
alan_cx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem there is that the US loudly and fundamentally claims to be a democracy. If we are to accept that, then we have to accept that the government embodies the will of its people. Or, seriously consider that the US is genuinely no longer a real democracy. It is a real shame, as you imply. American people have done incredible things which contribute to the world in general in a positive way, and the country its self…

I don't think it's fair to paint all of this as somehow originating with the US. This country doesn't exist in a vacuum and it is shaped by the political and economic forces that surround it. I think people forget that this nation is constantly under some form of "attack" by groups (nation-state and otherwise) who hope to destabilize it or mitigate the power it can wield. I'm an American and I'm fiercely proud of thi…

Good point. It is certainly true that the US is an absolutely, stupendously, incomprehensibly huge place; with a mind-bending amount of variety and differentiation. I loved living there for the (short) period that I did.

Still not going back.

Post reply on HN