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Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

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Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that you've got this out of your system and let everybody know how awesome your life experiences are, would you like to address the individual points in my reply or would you like to brag a bit more and hurl some more insults? While it was unfair of me to bring up the passport thing, you completely missed the point of my post.

No, I didn't miss the point of your post. I understood it completely amidst the insults you hurled MY way and the way you misread what I was trying to say. I will however accept your apology and reward that with this little gem: You can get rich in a place called China or in a place called Russia, but you can't criticize the government there AT ALL or you will end up in jail or dead. Or alive and wishing you were dea…

> You can get rich in a place called China or in a place called Russia, but you can't criticize the government there AT ALL or you will end up in jail or dead. Or alive and wishing you were dead. Americans, rich and poor, criticize the government all the time, and don't worry about this (much).

While this might've been true in the past, America has become pretty authoritarian recently. Dragnet surveillance, excessive use of police force, one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, people being imprisoned for writing the wrong thing on Facebook (look up the kid in Texas who got in enormous trouble over a joke), police departments taking bribes from i-banks and then beating protesters up etc.

It's a sad thing because America was founded on some really great principles and now you're just throwing it all away while still claiming greatness and refusing to take a hard honest look at yourself. I don't dispute that China and Russia are shitty places. I am disputing your claim that America is the absolute best country in the world. It might've been for waves of immigrants a hundred years ago. I seriously doubt that's still the case. I for one wouldn't want to live there.

> There are western countries (like France) where you can get rich and live (mostly) free, but you'll be constantly hounded by the taxing authorities to support their ever-grander uses for the money you earned.

America is known to have one of the most vicious and unforgiving tax system in the world where people routinely end up getting serious jail time over tax issues that could easily be resolved with a simple conversation. Then there is the issue of global taxation. I work with a number of Americans colleagues and they all complain how unfair it is that they have to keep paying taxes on their income here despite the fact that most of them haven't been home in years and have little intention of returning. One of my colleagues was unable to fly back home for a period of time because he would've been detained and arrested at the airport over a tax misunderstanding he had with the IRS. Couldn't go home until that got cleared up. I can't imagine something like this happening in my country unless I was wanted for murder or something.

Now granted, taxes in Europe are high, but my country doesn't tax me on my global income. Additionally, many countries have great social safety nets and medical treatment is usually completely covered by national health insurance. This causes our taxes to be slightly higher than in the US, but at least I know that if I or people close to me ever go bankrupt, they won't be sentenced to die on the street just because they can't pay their medical bill. I was pretty sick this summer - total expense: 30 euros. My father got a pretty bad case of cancer a few years ago and the treatment was completely free, from the surgery to the hospital expenses. I looked up online how much the same procedure would've cost in the US and the figure was around $100K. Since my dad doesn't have that kind of money and he's retired, he likely would've died if he lived there.

> Like political elites? Like enclaves of power you can't ever penetrate? France has 'em in spades. In America, you can go to a crappy school and still become President. We've had Presidents with only a high-school diploma. Some had no formal education.

Political elites like the Wall Street banksters who gave massive "donations" to the NYPD around the time of Occupy Wall Street protests? Political elites that get into Congress and Senate and then lobby and try to change laws in the favor of their multi-billion dollar businesses? Political elites who instigate wars to keep their sponsors and donators in the oil-military-industrial complex happy for the next campaign just so they could remain in the office? You know what I'm talking about here.

> What you can't find is a nation anywhere in the world that has the same level of disparate groups living in more-or-less peaceful coexistence to keep the country moving forward. We have every kind of person from every kind of place with every crazy religion you can imagine. We have so many choices that people make up their own religions. We have so many mixed nationalities in offspring that we have almost lost the idea of what it means to be from-somewhere-else.

I am not convinced. While there is this illusion of multiculturalism and acceptance in America, the moment you scratch under the surface you realize racism is still alive and well. A lot of my American friends tell me they would never raise their kids near a black neighborhood. A friend of mine from San Francisco was amazed by the fact that there are no homeless people here and that you can walk anywhere at any time of the night without fear of getting mugged/stabbed/shot. Oh and... there are no ghettos here. Most of the population is uniformly upper-middle class and ghettos are nonexistent. You could fall asleep on the street with a wad of cash sticking out of your pocket, wake up in the morning and it would still be there. I have seen it time and again (literally).

Anyway, this is turning into a rather long discussion so I'm going to leave you with this. My point is not to belittle America, but to say that there are plenty of amazing places in the world that would objectively rank much higher in terms of livability. Just look at any list of the most livable cities in the world, most are either in Europe, Oceania and Canada (haven't found such a list for countries):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_Quality_of_Living_Surve...

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#353
> In the Philippines I had to bribe someone in order to get my visa extended for a few days.

No you don't! I have been asked for "visa extention bribes" in many countries. Do not pay them. Cite the countries law and that you follow it. Bribes kill. "Every bribe you pay helps to kill a child." Just don't!

What I learned from the story: If I ever go on a US trip, I get a fresh passport first.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#354
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the logic goes something like this: something bad happened to me once in country X. Therefore, I will not go back to country X. So, if something bad happens to you in Sweden, say a policeman is rude to you, or something like that, will you leave Sweden because of it ?

> So, if something bad happens to you in Sweden, say a policeman is rude to you, or something like that, will you leave Sweden because of it ? No. But if police officers are routinely rude to me, and if I see many reports of officers killing people and beating people - even people who pose no risk to those officers - then I might start thinking about where I live.

What is considered rude from a police officer in Europe is when he does not address you properly.

What is considered rude from a police officer in the US is when they shot you without warning (with a warning, it's normal).

They are lots of places I would love to visit in the US, but current policies are keeping me out (also: beard).

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#355
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Democrat party benefits greatly from illegal immigration from Mexico Could you back up that assertion with proof, or at least with some sound reasoning. While I can accept that Latinos tend to vote democrat illegal immigrants can't vote to begin with. So it certainly doesn't follow that "The Democrat party benefits greatly from illegal immigration from Mexico" To me that sounds a bit like partisan mud slinging, I…

Could you back up that assertion with proof Google "latino voting patterns us" and read. illegal immigrants can't vote to begin with 1. Don't you think that's kind of a myopic view of reality? The children of illegal immigrants are able to vote. 2. You don't see how extreme pandering to illegal immigrants might play into voting patterns of second and third(+) generation descendants?

Don't you think that's kind of a myopic view of reality to speak of the descendants of illegal immigrants as though they weren't natural full born legal American citizens who are completely entitled to make an educated vote against an ever-shrinking old white male established hegemony that childishly refuses to represent modern reality and values, be it George Bush, Romney or any other stereotypical republican who's destroying your country purely for political gain.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#356
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Although, if you're an Australian like I am, you must know that this is all going to get worse. I'm sick of our Government (no matter who seems to be in power at the time) taking every single page out of the American playbook. I like our country, why do we have to try and be them? :(

Fucking seriously? I know it's popular to hate "America" lately -- since it makes a nice big clean target and it gives you a nice fuzzy "edgy" feeling to do so -- but it seems more like Australia's leading the pack when it comes to overreaching soft-authoritarian policy.

Actually, it's more "Queensland" that's the problem, although I think things are going to get rapidly worse at the federal level too.

Fuck my state. Who's idea was it to give a populist idiot (Newman) a super-majority?

(I agree with you, for what it's worth, but there is definitely a not-so-subtle undercurrent in politics of "We should do what America does")

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#357
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Although, if you're an Australian like I am, you must know that this is all going to get worse. I'm sick of our Government (no matter who seems to be in power at the time) taking every single page out of the American playbook. I like our country, why do we have to try and be them? :(

America didn't invent fascism. It's recycling a playbook that various parts of Europe mastered nearly a century ago. Interestingly, the most dangerous and powerful aspect of American fascism in fact was born from what it took to fight Europe's WW2 mess (and the NSA is a direct descendant of that as well). History is often rich with irony. The playbook Australia is taking a page out of is a very old one indeed.

Good point. Queensland is about to pass another ridiculous law that curtails human rights and due process: yay! :'(

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I didn't miss the point of your post. I understood it completely amidst the insults you hurled MY way and the way you misread what I was trying to say. I will however accept your apology and reward that with this little gem: You can get rich in a place called China or in a place called Russia, but you can't criticize the government there AT ALL or you will end up in jail or dead. Or alive and wishing you were dea…

> You can get rich in a place called China or in a place called Russia, but you can't criticize the government there AT ALL or you will end up in jail or dead. Or alive and wishing you were dead. Americans, rich and poor, criticize the government all the time, and don't worry about this (much). While this might've been true in the past, America has become pretty authoritarian recently. Dragnet surveillance, excessive…

C'mon man. You just belittled America with four paragraphs. You don't like America? Fine. Stay where you are. I find it LAUGHABLE that you devote pages and pages of prose to tell me why my country isn't awesome. Seriously, you're an expert right? You DEFINITELY know how things are here.

I know it's fashionable to bash the US on HN, but really, why do people just keep coming here? Why is immigration such a contentious issue? Why do I continue to see posts from people on HN trying to find a way to live or work here? Why is some group trying to anchor a boat off of San Francisco for startups to get around the US immigration system? Why?

Take a look in the mirror. Everything you hate about HERE you have over THERE without the benefit of CHOICE.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#359
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you back up that assertion with proof Google "latino voting patterns us" and read. illegal immigrants can't vote to begin with 1. Don't you think that's kind of a myopic view of reality? The children of illegal immigrants are able to vote. 2. You don't see how extreme pandering to illegal immigrants might play into voting patterns of second and third(+) generation descendants?

Don't you think that's kind of a myopic view of reality to speak of the descendants of illegal immigrants as though they weren't natural full born legal American citizens who are completely entitled to make an educated vote against an ever-shrinking old white male established hegemony that childishly refuses to represent modern reality and values, be it George Bush, Romney or any other stereotypical republican who's…

American citizens who are completely entitled

If my father robbed banks and amassed a great deal of money that he bequeathed to me... am I entitled to that money?

Are Bernie Madoff's family members entitled to what he acquired through his illegal schemes?

I find your definition of "entitled" to not be in line with my own. Further, my guess is that your "because they're already there" argument falls apart if you're talking about the land that the Israelis occupy.

ever-shrinking old white male established hegemony

For a side so vociferously opposed to racism, I find that dividing people based upon race is one of their most frequently-used arguments.

modern reality and values

If "modern reality and values" are equivalent to what causes Mexico to be such a crappy country, then I'll stick with the old white guys' reality and values.

So we have Mexico, a country whose culture is irretrievably steeped in corruption and ignoring the rule of law to its eternal detriment... and yet the people of that culture who created that culture are to be encouraged to come to the USA without restriction and without hope that those people will absorb the existing culture that led to the success that draws the Mexicans here.

Further, the very corruption and ignoring of the rule of law that led to the malaise in their society is the first thing that they use to get and stay here. Nice.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The registration and title were in my name because title had cleared the German DMV. He basically didn't believe his own DMV and started calling previous owners in the middle of the night.

It's also difficult to claim that this reflects the current situation in Germany. As best I can tell, Germany hasn't had any road border controls since 2007 (when Czech Rep & Poland implemented Schengen).

True. This was before the formation of the European Union.
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