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Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

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Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#111

Post by Nrsolis »

alan_cx wrote: post #51
w_t_payne wrote: post #13

Beautiful country. Wonderful, creative, friendly people. Horrible, over-complex, hostile bureaucracy. I am pretty sure I'm not going back, either.

Problem there is that the US loudly and fundamentally claims to be a democracy. If we are to accept that, then we have to accept that the government embodies the will of its people. Or, seriously consider that the US is genuinely no longer a real democracy. It is a real shame, as you imply. American people have done incredible things which contribute to the world in general in a positive way, and the country its self…

I don't think it's fair to paint all of this as somehow originating with the US. This country doesn't exist in a vacuum and it is shaped by the political and economic forces that surround it. I think people forget that this nation is constantly under some form of "attack" by groups (nation-state and otherwise) who hope to destabilize it or mitigate the power it can wield.

I'm an American and I'm fiercely proud of this country. We screw up all the time, but we've been able to manage a peaceful transition of power and somehow manage to find our way in a difficult and challenging world.

I think it's lost on MANY people who are not citizens or residents that the USA is HUGE, politically diverse, and nearly as varied in customs, socioeconomics, and population as Europe. You can even stretch that to language in some parts of the USA. Try and get around South Miami without at least a smattering of Spanish language ability.

Our legal system has it's flaws. You can definitely find examples of miscarriages of justice without too much trouble. Our bureaucracy is sometimes incomprehensible. Our tax systems are strange and often counterproductive.

What is often missing is that all of these things are the result of a vigorous political experiment in self-government. Below the federal government, there are a whole slew of state, regional, city, town, village, and county governments that have wide latitude to set their own laws and practices. In certain counties in the USA, it's still illegal to buy alcohol. In other counties, you can buy alcohol at a DRIVE THRU.

All of these variations are a result of people determining for themselves which laws they'll live under. It's closer to say that the USA is filled with many many cooperating democracies.

Just remember that in this country, you can still go from dirt-floor poor (not an exaggeration) to billionaire in the span of a single lifetime.

We're far from perfect, but it's the recognition that we're trying to perfect this country that makes us unique and special.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#112

Post by aet »

w_t_payne wrote: post #13

Beautiful country. Wonderful, creative, friendly people. Horrible, over-complex, hostile bureaucracy. I am pretty sure I'm not going back, either.

If you travel to Yemen or the surrounding area you will get the 9th degree. See http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_6046.html

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#113

Post by vasilipupkin »

nknighthb wrote: post #82
vasilipupkin wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and I am empathetic, but somehow 67 million international tourists manage to enter the U.S. per year, according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings so perhaps, my advice is, don't overreact.

Rather than directing your "advice" to the victims, direct it to the US immigration officers.

There is no doubt that the U.S. immigration system is broken and needs fixing, this is a complicated political issue that is currently being debated in Congress. Conditional on this unfortunate reality, which we can't immediately change, my advice is not to over-react.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#114

Post by dagw »

dferlemann wrote: post #42
vasilipupkin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the logic goes something like this: something bad happened to me once in country X. Therefore, I will not go back to country X. So, if something bad happens to you in Sweden, say a policeman is rude to you, or something like that, will you leave Sweden because of it ?

This is not a logical issue. It's an emotional one. So, it depends on the person. Wouldn't you held anything against a country if that's country's border control detained you, denied the services you paid for, denied the properties you have in the country, treated you like a sub-human? Would you try to enter that country again? Try, just try to be empathetic...

It's also a financial and practical issue. Being refused entry at the border can mean significant costs in non-refundable bookings and re-booking of flights. Not to mention the fact that you just wasted some very valuable vacation days (which to many people are worth more than the money they represent).

I know I don't want to waste my vacation days playing bureaucratic Russian roulette when I could spend them in any one of the dozens countries that will happily let me visit with a minimum of fuss.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#115

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

fenesiistvan wrote: post #55

Coming from Romania, I also had to face some extra control in US airports + we also need visa which is given also after an interview. Romania is a country with zero terrorism. I only wish US people to be treated in EU the same way they treat EU people in US.

Two wrongs make a right.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#117

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

rbehrends wrote: post #63
bsdetector wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The border patrol knew he was part Jewish, and that being the case, asked him why he went to country that was hostile to Jews, and he denied being Jewish. It's not about ethnicity, it's about telling the agents something they know is not accurate. This part, like the whole story, was a miscommunication. A better answer would be something like "Well I only have Jewish ancestry from one grandparent so I didn't think th…

Judaism has traditionally defined Jewishness as being matrilineal; i.e. you're Jewish if your mother is Jewish. Reform Judaism accepts bilineal ancestry, but on the condition that one has been raised as a Jew. So, yes, he was completely right to deny being Jewish.

You expect every border patrol agent to know this?

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#118

Post by thaumasiotes »

mcv wrote: post #36
jballanc wrote: post #33

I don't think it's ever been easy to get into the US. A tour through Ellis Island will tell you as much. The difference is that, in the past, the US needed its immigrants. They built its cities and its railroads and much of the US's early industry. Later the US's immigrants were its main source of scientific advancements...but the US's relationship with its immigrants has, I think, always been strained. The differenc…

The country is made almost entirely out of immigrants. It's bizarre that they're so closed off and scared of immigrants; they themselves are the children of immigrants.

In this sense, every country in the world is made entirely (not "almost entirely") from immigrants. Plenty of American families have been there as long as anyone alive can remember; the fact that the history beyond living memory is shorter than usual isn't particularly relevant.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#119

Post by girvo »

tphan wrote: post #96
cstross wrote: post #24

Interestingly, in the developed world it seems to be the Anglophone countries that have the shittiest attitude towards border control these days. The US is notoriously user-hostile at the borders. The UK is doing its best to catch up in a Mini-Me way with the USA's Dr Evil, and is actually on course to become even more hostile than the USA -- the only mitigating factor is that the third degree is reserved for non-cit…

Your Australia-related articles were posted in July. Tony Abbott didn't become Prime Minister until September.

Yep.

Although, if you're an Australian like I am, you must know that this is all going to get worse.

I'm sick of our Government (no matter who seems to be in power at the time) taking every single page out of the American playbook. I like our country, why do we have to try and be them? :(

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#120

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

onetwofiveten wrote: post #75
bsdetector wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The border patrol knew he was part Jewish, and that being the case, asked him why he went to country that was hostile to Jews, and he denied being Jewish. It's not about ethnicity, it's about telling the agents something they know is not accurate. This part, like the whole story, was a miscommunication. A better answer would be something like "Well I only have Jewish ancestry from one grandparent so I didn't think th…

Having a Jewish father doesn't make you Jewish. Only people who have Jewish mothers or those who convert to Judaism are considered Jewish. If the agent thought he was being inaccurate then the agent was just being ignorant.

Try telling that to an Al Qaeda extremist! Which, by the way, is what the border agent was getting at.
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