Back in the late 90's the US was fairly high on my list of travel destinations. At the time I didn't have the finances to visit.
Because of stories like this, it's slipping so low on my list that I'll likely never get there.
Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States
41–50 of 375 posts
Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States
#42Something similar happened to me recently. I voluntarily left my job at a US employer, planning to move back home (to Sweden). But first I wanted to spend some time preparing for the move and waiting for my wife to wrap things up. The rules say you have to leave the country the last day of work, so I left for Canada to stay with a friend, and planned to come back on the visa waiver program. I consulted with the compa…
So the logic goes something like this: something bad happened to me once in country X. Therefore, I will not go back to country X. So, if something bad happens to you in Sweden, say a policeman is rude to you, or something like that, will you leave Sweden because of it ?
This is not a logical issue. It's an emotional one. So, it depends on the person. Wouldn't you held anything against a country if that's country's border control detained you, denied the services you paid for, denied the properties you have in the country, treated you like a sub-human? Would you try to enter that country again? Try, just try to be empathetic...
Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States
#43What is immigration control doing these days when very few people actually get stamps in passports? And if I have stamps from Somalia and Libya in my passport, why would I go to the US wihtout first getting a new blank passport? Are stamps in passport really that useful?
If people start doing that, they'll probably start rejecting people with passports less than half a year old.
Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States
#44Something similar happened to me recently. I voluntarily left my job at a US employer, planning to move back home (to Sweden). But first I wanted to spend some time preparing for the move and waiting for my wife to wrap things up. The rules say you have to leave the country the last day of work, so I left for Canada to stay with a friend, and planned to come back on the visa waiver program. I consulted with the compa…
There are all sorts of things about immigration laws & policies that violate our sense of correctness or justice. All sorts of basic principles don't apply.
There is no strict rule of law. The border guards' discretionary (arbitrary) power is an example of that. That applies on several levels. Policies & laws are not governed by higher laws/constitutions so the laws & policies themselves are discretionary & arbitrary. Basic principles like habeas corpus (right to be judged by a judge) and presumption of innocence don't apply. This is why 'privilege, not a right' is the approach.
I think most of the rest is what we get when the basics aren't there. Equality before the law doesn't really apply when there is no rule of law so blatant discrimination is the norm with policies for different nationalities & cultural/ethnic/racial groups. Freedoms are profoundly violated by visa restrictions everywhere, almost by definition. If your visa is tied to your job or your profession, you are a lot less free. That kind of limit on freedom would be considered draconian if applied in other cases.
When a country restricts immigrants' permission to work in certain professions or live in certain areas, we don't think twice about it. Up until the modern era Jews in Europe were restricted in such a way. Those were controversially oppressive laws even in the context of 17th center Czarist Russia/Eastern Europe.
Anyway, to make lemonade from these experiences I think this should remind us how important basic principles of justice are. We need to protect them and make sure they don't lose ground. It's a horrible, naked feeling when you realize that they don't apply and the guy in the stupid hat has arbitrary power over you.
Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States
#45[deleted]
Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States
#46> When I'm supposed to watch my words, I tend to say the wrong ones. No kidding. Volunteering that he was in Al Qaeda territory... to take pictures of plants. Saying he's a nihilist. Suggesting that the levees in New Orleans might break again while he's visiting. Having Jewish ancestry, but denying being Jewish because not religious. Also appears he was also traveling alone to many of these places, without any busine…
I dont get the Jewish part, would it make a difference if he claims that he's jewish ?
The border patrol knew he was part Jewish, and that being the case, asked him why he went to country that was hostile to Jews, and he denied being Jewish. It's not about ethnicity, it's about telling the agents something they know is not accurate.
This part, like the whole story, was a miscommunication. A better answer would be something like "Well I only have Jewish ancestry from one grandparent so I didn't think that would be a problem".
Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States
#47I don't think it's ever been easy to get into the US. A tour through Ellis Island will tell you as much. The difference is that, in the past, the US needed its immigrants. They built its cities and its railroads and much of the US's early industry. Later the US's immigrants were its main source of scientific advancements...but the US's relationship with its immigrants has, I think, always been strained. The differenc…
The country is made almost entirely out of immigrants. It's bizarre that they're so closed off and scared of immigrants; they themselves are the children of immigrants.
The US has a higher per capita net migration rate than every major European country other than Italy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migrat...
More than three times that of France, for example.
Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States
#48Something similar happened to me recently. I voluntarily left my job at a US employer, planning to move back home (to Sweden). But first I wanted to spend some time preparing for the move and waiting for my wife to wrap things up. The rules say you have to leave the country the last day of work, so I left for Canada to stay with a friend, and planned to come back on the visa waiver program. I consulted with the compa…
So the logic goes something like this: something bad happened to me once in country X. Therefore, I will not go back to country X. So, if something bad happens to you in Sweden, say a policeman is rude to you, or something like that, will you leave Sweden because of it ?
No, the logic goes like this: in "country X", this type of arrogant behavior is supported by the political background, while in "Sweden", there's no polical support for policeman rudeness. This is therefore a perfectly valid reason not to visit "country X".
Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one has the unquestioned right to enter any country except one where they hold citizenship. This post documents one person who was turned away for what he felt was an unreasonable position but that's still up to the United States to decide. Yes it is. And it is up to the people to decide not wanting to go to US ever again, as stated in this post. Seems like you got offended by something the writer said. All he sta…
I was responding to the assertion that this is "broken," not to the author of the original article. The author has every right to not visit countries which have wronged him and I see nothing wrong with that. What I do think is wrong is to immediately reply to someone else with a retort of "maybe fix your country."
I see. I think I missed your target and point somewhere in "for what he felt was an unreasonable position" and "It may shock people on Hacker News to learn this". Sorry.
Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States
#50What is immigration control doing these days when very few people actually get stamps in passports? And if I have stamps from Somalia and Libya in my passport, why would I go to the US wihtout first getting a new blank passport? Are stamps in passport really that useful?
That's my problem with these kinds of scenarios. An honest person with a truthful passport will be punished, while someone with a blank passport might not be looked at twice.
Actually I traveled to Japan with a blank passport and was selected for additional checks. Nothing aggressive or in any way impolite, but I would guess a blank passport would be regarded suspicious in many instances.