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The first Bitcoin post on HN

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#251

Post by 31reasons »

potency wrote: post #168
brucehart wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still kicking myself because when I first heard about Bitcoin (in 2010) I was working on a research project that required three GPU clusters (each costing between $15k and $20k). The contract for the project was delayed and I seriously thought about "benchmarking" the hardware by Bitcoin mining until work on the project could continue. I never actually did any mining and the hardware sat idle in our lab for a cou…

Bitcoin has had the ability to make nearly everyone look foolish at one point or another. Try not to kick yourself too hard over it.

Exactly. A lot of people sold all of their bitcoins when it reached insanely high rate of $1, and those who bought at $1 probably sold them at $10.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#252

Post by heelhook »

sliverstorm wrote: post #231
kriro wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the bigger news would be if you could pay taxes in Bitcoin. If that happens a currency has arrived.

You can't pay US taxes in GBP. GBP is a currency.

You can pay GB taxes in GBP though. Why must you assume taxes = US taxes?

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#253

Post by Pitarou »

kriro wrote: post #229
aestra wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this isn't going to make sense unless my paycheck is in Bitcoin. I'll still have to do the currency conversion in my head because I get paid in USD.

Actually the bigger news would be if you could pay taxes in Bitcoin. If that happens a currency has arrived.

That won't happen.

Governments routinely force their citizens to use a currency under state control. One of the ways they do this is by insisting that taxes are paid in the national currency.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#254

Post by Pitarou »

Joeri wrote: post #41
sentenza wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is not that black and white, is it? While it is quite clear that Bitcoin has "value" as long as people are willing to trade it (i.e., indefinitely), there is still no reason to assume that it will ever stop having these extreme fluctuations. To the contrary, I'd say that, as time progresses, we observe Bitcoin having the same problems that the gold standard had, mixed with an additional proneness to speculatio…

The value of a currency lies entirely in the perception of that value. I don't consider bitcoin different from a traditional currency, except that its rate of production is known in advance. It will keep having value because by now enough people think it does.

No.

If somebody sues me, and I offer to pay my debt in bitcoins, the court may refuse to recognise this payment. But if I pay in the national currency, the court is required to recognise this payment.

This is part of the legal system in every country. It's one of the mechanisms governments use to force citizens to use the national currency.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#255

Post by fiesycal »

fragsworth wrote: post #222
fiesycal wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget to include the fee's from an unstable method of exchange (bitcoin) depreciating or appreciating between the times you exchange it for USD.

Bitpay assumes the volatility risk for customers and merchants, and charges at most 1% for their cheapest platform, so none of this is really an issue - is it?

Bitpay is when the customer pays in bitcoin. But to get bitcoin you still need to exchange for USD somewhere. And that's where the cost of exchange risk comes in.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#256

Post by orblivion »

mpg33 wrote: post #90
pinaceae wrote: post #45

and let's revisit this discussion 5 years from now. right now there is so much fluctutation within BC it might as well be tulips. maybe it will become a stable currency, maybe it won't.

Hate when people use the tulips comparison. The basic protocol of bitcoin that allows people to send value anywhere in the world and solves the double spend problem must have some value unto itself. I don't know it's worth $0.10, $100, or $1000000 per bitcoin to use the protocol but to compare it to a plant seems kinda ridiculous.

If you have interest, and the patience to excuse my long-windedness (still learning to write concisely), I give a pretty thorough counter-argument to this here: http://ill-logic-politik.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-fallacies-...

In short, that's begging the question. It's like saying "tulips are great because it lets me give people tulips".

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#257

Post by nly »

aestra wrote: post #38
techprotocol wrote: post #6

How many people had the slightest clue that books would be replaced by Kindles, CDs by iPODs, tablets selling as much as laptops. The comments show that people underestimated the impact bitcoin would make. I still believe its just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Bitcoin.

Wow! Books surely have not been replaced by Kindles! Not by a long shot. 40% of readers still use only print books. Here's some random data to back that up. https://www.surveymonkey.com/blog/en/blog/2013/03/25/print-b...

40% is lower than I imagined. That's a frighteningly low figure

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#258

Post by jaxn »

vkou wrote: post #228
jaxn wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where the bitcoin boosters start to seem a little looney to me. 99% of my experience with currency has been with USD, which have been relatively stable from month to month. It is a difficult situation because it appears that when people take the time to learn about it, they become big fans of bitcoin but also start worrying about the total collapse of the fed and the USD. I am trying to understand the argumen…

I can say, with 100% that the USD, and the fed will collapse. Nothing lasts forever - and if anyone argues otherwise, I've got some Roman Denarius to sell them (At twice the price of their gold content). Whether or not this happens in my lifetime, and whether BTC is worth speculating on is another question altogether.

Just because every other currency has been devalued doesn't mean that the USD will. The argument typically goes that the USD must collapse because it isn't backed by anything meaningful. Except that the USD is backed by the largest and most powerful stockpile of weapons ever amassed in the history of the world.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#259

Post by pfisch »

Steko wrote: post #207
MarkPNeyer wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you'd be crazy to buy hosting anonymously - especially if your government protects its people from bad ideas you'd be crazy to buy weapons anonymously - especially if your government protects its people from harm by keeping them unarmed you'd be crazy to trust mathematics more than governments because governments never lie, whereas numbers are made up all the time

The first two are covered under the word "legally". If your government doesn't allow something it's illegal. It might sound great to frame that as applying to things we all love like "speech" and "self-defense" but it applies equally to all things illegal like "laundering money" , "hiring an assassin", "buying heroin" or "acquiring a stockpile of illegal explosives to blow up an old folks home". The last of your line…

I guess I don't understand.

First of all these kinds of transactions need a vehicle like bitcoin, because using cash introduces a lot of middle men that dramatically decrease the efficiency of illegal transactions.

Second of all there is no way to send money right now for legal transactions without also introducing a bunch of similar middle men. I think square cash is maybe free right now in a promotional sort of way but it will not continue to be free.

Third there is no good way to do micro transactions right now...also because of middle men.

This seems like a disruptive technology that will displace a lot of middle men....

As long as it doesn't get hacked it at least seems like a pretty great idea.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#260

Post by jafaku »

blibble wrote: post #197
digitailor wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, someone on HN who understands stores of exchange-value. Refreshing. Just one of the many, many ways bitcoin is better than gold as a store of exchange-value: embedded security. No armored trucks, no vaults. And look at China. BTC's recent rise is partially attributable to the fact it's a so-far-legal method of moving ¥ out of the country. And their government looks to be in support. The reason it's illegal to ex…

I dunno, armoured trucks and vaults are pretty hard to get into. one critical bug in the main bitcoin client and the value will become zero (or close to it). whilst I like the idea of bitcoin, I'm not betting my retirement on being able to draw out my BTC balance in 40 years

Thank you, but I can't afford an armoured truck. Instead, I can use its cryptographic equivalent for free.
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