Live data from Hacker News

The first Bitcoin post on HN

news.ycombinator.com

221–230 of 302 posts

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#221
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yay! 3 layers of fees!

Customer USD -> Customer BTC: 1% + $0.15 (Coinbase) Customer BTC -> Merchant BTC: $0.06 (transaction fees, currently abnormally high due to price spike) Merchant BTC -> Merchant USD: 0.99% (Bitpay) Total: 1.99% + $0.24 Compare: credit cards and Paypal (2.9% + $0.30) So even there it works out fine.

Don't forget to include the fee's from an unstable method of exchange (bitcoin) depreciating or appreciating between the times you exchange it for USD.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customer USD -> Customer BTC: 1% + $0.15 (Coinbase) Customer BTC -> Merchant BTC: $0.06 (transaction fees, currently abnormally high due to price spike) Merchant BTC -> Merchant USD: 0.99% (Bitpay) Total: 1.99% + $0.24 Compare: credit cards and Paypal (2.9% + $0.30) So even there it works out fine.

Don't forget to include the fee's from an unstable method of exchange (bitcoin) depreciating or appreciating between the times you exchange it for USD.

Bitpay assumes the volatility risk for customers and merchants, and charges at most 1% for their cheapest platform, so none of this is really an issue - is it?

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#223
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the interesting thing about tulips is that that's not true. I don't mean to single you out here, but this is a demonstration of how most people know jack shit about Tulipomania (even though many of them are perfectly willing to bloviate about it and compare Bitcoin to tulips). One of the revolutionary things about tulips at that time was that the unique patterns caused by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip…

Interesting thanks, what's a good book to read abou it all then?

If you just want some correctives to the popular mythology of Tulipomania, you can start with _Famous First Bubbles_: quick read which demolishes a lot of the platitudes and simplifications, and covers the virus & other issues.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#224
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people getting rich of bitcoin doesn't make everyone else worse off. And a "new aristocracy" is a huge stretch. A few people will get rich off it but not like that. And the value of bitcoin won't deflate forever. Eventually the price will stabilize.

If you view a change in currency as fundamentally pretty useless, then yes, giving massive amounts of financial control of resources and labour(which is what money represents) to people with BTC hoarded does indeed take away from others. And if BTC were to become (for instance) a primary currency for a country, and that country were to experience economic growth, then deflation must necessarily continue.

circumventing capital controls allowing people to vote with their feet and impoverish corrupt governments is not useless.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#226
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you view a change in currency as fundamentally pretty useless, then yes, giving massive amounts of financial control of resources and labour(which is what money represents) to people with BTC hoarded does indeed take away from others. And if BTC were to become (for instance) a primary currency for a country, and that country were to experience economic growth, then deflation must necessarily continue.

circumventing capital controls allowing people to vote with their feet and impoverish corrupt governments is not useless.

In many cases impoverishing various governments, corrupt or otherwise, would be worse than useless. Many, many people rely on government for food, fuel and shelter.

Secondly there are many of us who consider a currency that can be centrally adjusted as part of economic stabilisation to be a very good thing.

Third, in an expanding economy, a deflating currency steals wealth from the productive and hands it to hoarders.

So yeah, it's pretty useless as far as I can tell.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#228
post #141
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of a currency lies entirely in the perception of that value. I don't consider bitcoin different from a traditional currency, except that its rate of production is known in advance. It will keep having value because by now enough people think it does.

This is where the bitcoin boosters start to seem a little looney to me. 99% of my experience with currency has been with USD, which have been relatively stable from month to month. It is a difficult situation because it appears that when people take the time to learn about it, they become big fans of bitcoin but also start worrying about the total collapse of the fed and the USD. I am trying to understand the argumen…

I can say, with 100% that the USD, and the fed will collapse.

Nothing lasts forever - and if anyone argues otherwise, I've got some Roman Denarius to sell them (At twice the price of their gold content).

Whether or not this happens in my lifetime, and whether BTC is worth speculating on is another question altogether.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#229
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is still no reason to assume that it will ever stop having these extreme fluctuations. Actually I was thinking about this yesterday, and I think if/when goods start to be priced in BTC (not just "fixed USD value converted to current BTC equivalent") that could help anchor the value of BTC.

Except this isn't going to make sense unless my paycheck is in Bitcoin. I'll still have to do the currency conversion in my head because I get paid in USD.

Actually the bigger news would be if you could pay taxes in Bitcoin. If that happens a currency has arrived.

Re: The first Bitcoin post on HN

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a really good point that I don't feel has been adequately answered -- usually people say something like "well, bitcoin has momentum" or somesuch, which strikes me as being nonsense if you accept the idea of why bitcoins have value as being an intrinsic property related to their fungibility, scarcity, and non-consumability; in theory the same things that give all currencies their value. The only expla…

There are some rare metals, other than silver and gold, that did not become a currency, despite having all the same features. Why?

I wouldn't even make the claim that silver and gold functioned as money. In pretty much all circumstances that I'm aware of, the scarcity (in the slightly unconventional sense I'm using it) and fungibility of gold and silver money is not great -- debasing with cheaper, more common metals resulted in differing standards of purity.

Most often, when gold and silver were used as currencies, it was because some dude punched his profile on one side of the coin, and because doing that as a private citizen was difficult and/or punishable by gruesome torture, the value of the money was related to how powerful the head on the coin was because that related to the probability that the coin wouldn't turn green.

This doesn't really answer the question you posed. Now I'm totally in the realm of post-hoc reasoning, though, and I can't really think of a concrete way of falsifying this argument, but I'll go for it anyway. Gold and silver occur naturally near the surface in relatively pure forms; gold especially since it doesn't really allow with anything. As a result, these metals were present in antiquity, and as systems of money grew up, they were good candidates because people thought they understood the scarcity -- an understanding that turned out to be proven incorrect several times in the history of coinage, with reasonably disastrous impacts on savers in those metals. Of course, "being used in antiquity" was not one of the properties I defined above. Arguably fungibility is a factor if the metals were not easily identifiable or distinguishable from other metals.

Post reply on HN