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Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

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Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#311

Post by DanBC »

Nrsolis wrote: post #193
DanBC wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and nearly as varied in customs, socioeconomics, and population as Europe. You can even stretch that to language in some parts of the USA. Try and get around South Miami without at least a smattering of Spanish language ability. 40 European languages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/european_languages/languages/... (That's just for starters.) In my rural county in England we have something like 120 different languag…

I think you're deliberately misunderstanding me. And that's fine. I'm definitely detecting a bunch of do-as-I-say type of sentiment. But my mother fled a country (her European home country and the country of her birth) that tried to kill her and every one like her. SO...please pardon me if I don't agree to entertain your Europe is oh-so-much-better than the US diatribe. If one persons difficult experience can indict…

You've said that the US is as varied as Europe. You said that we can stretch that to languages. You gave an example of needing to speak Spanish to get around some parts of the US.

Spain itself has Spanish, Catalan, Galician, and Basque. Sure, you can probably just use Spanish. But about 15% of the Spanish population - living in Spain for generations - don't speak Spanish as a first language.

None if this is about which country / continent is "better".

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#312

Post by jakejake »

grecy wrote: post #298
misterjangles wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The border patrol could care less whether you are a broke student or a rich tourist. They are not interested in how much you plan to spend. So in that regard I would think you might as well tell them the truth simply because if you get caught in a lie then you would cause grief for yourself of no good reason. But if you are an excellent liar, then go for what're you want! Basically the border patrol are looking for t…

> The border patrol could care less whether you are a broke student or a rich tourist. Not true at all. I'm Australian and I regularly cross from Canada into the US in my junker car full of snowboarding or camping gear. Every single time the border guards want to see bank statements, proof of employment, etc. etc. They're convinced I want to stay in the US and leech off the system (which is nonsensical, when I could…

Well, if you come through looking like a ski bum with all of your worldly possessions in your back seat then you shouldn't either try to tell the border patrol that you're a wealthy tourist getting ready to kick the US economy into high gear with your lavish spending!

That being said, I'm getting super psyched for ski season and have been wanting to head to Canada this year. Recommend any good places within or near Ontario?

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#313

Post by grecy »

jakejake wrote: post #312
grecy wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The border patrol could care less whether you are a broke student or a rich tourist. Not true at all. I'm Australian and I regularly cross from Canada into the US in my junker car full of snowboarding or camping gear. Every single time the border guards want to see bank statements, proof of employment, etc. etc. They're convinced I want to stay in the US and leech off the system (which is nonsensical, when I could…

Well, if you come through looking like a ski bum with all of your worldly possessions in your back seat then you shouldn't either try to tell the border patrol that you're a wealthy tourist getting ready to kick the US economy into high gear with your lavish spending! That being said, I'm getting super psyched for ski season and have been wanting to head to Canada this year. Recommend any good places within or near O…

> Recommend any good places near Ontario?

Unfortunately, Ontario is as flat as a pancake.

You really need to come out West, and you can't go wrong. All the resorts in the West are getting dumped on right now, and everyone's loving it. BC is where it's at for Canadian skiiing.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#314

Post by Nrsolis »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #227
Nrsolis wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're deliberately misunderstanding me. And that's fine. I'm definitely detecting a bunch of do-as-I-say type of sentiment. But my mother fled a country (her European home country and the country of her birth) that tried to kill her and every one like her. SO...please pardon me if I don't agree to entertain your Europe is oh-so-much-better than the US diatribe. If one persons difficult experience can indict…

"pardon me if I don't agree to entertain your Europe is oh-so-much-better than the US diatribe" Read the words again. None of DanBC's comments can be construed as a belief that Europe (or anywhere else) is better than the USA. If Europe has more languages than the US, for example, then that doesn't make Europe better in any meaningful sense. What (it seems to me) he's saying is that the US is less special and unique…

Uh huh. I love the British people. Really. Lived half a year in London and worked down in Mayfair back in the 90's.

But I'll admit that I found the fact that the UK has no Constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech a shock. And I'd wager that any American would find your system of ASBOs to be downright Orwellian.

Speaking of Orwell, you folks have had government surveillance on a scale unheard of in the USA for decades now. How's that working out? Wasn't there a near-simultaneous bus bombing in a heavily patrolled and videoed area?

My point is this: I find the constant US bashing that occurs on HN to be nasty and misplaced. Don't like my country? Great. Don't come here. Don't use US products. Don't use US services. Don't contribute financially to the US. I'm totally cool with it.

The mere fact that we have a torrent of immigration applications only demonstrates that despite the nasty border guards, the crazy laws, and the weird politics, that we still remain one of the best places to live a life. We're not perfect; we're just better in a lot of ways that matter to people.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#315

Post by twoodfin »

goatforce5 wrote: post #276
twoodfin wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they'll ask you to expand on arbitrary details of your short boring story, and unless you're a very good liar you'll be in trouble. People are always reporting odd conversations with border agents. When those conversations result in further scrutiny or being denied admittance, they can appear sinister or arbitrary in retrospect. But it's a basic behavioral profiling technique: Take a random walk down a conversat…

A TSA employee gave me a series of rapid fire questions about a pizza place in Boston after he physically removed me (via a firm grab on my arm) from a line of passengers about to board a plane (ie, well after the normal security checks). Something along the lines of: "Where have you been today?" "Santarpios." "Never heard of it. What's that?" "Really? It's right next to the turn off to get to the airport." "Never he…

Yeah, TSA has been pilot-testing behavioral profiling at Logan for a couple of years now:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/02/passengers-face-behavio...

Your description sounds like a guy who wasn't particularly good at it. They're supposed to be direct, but not argumentative ("Never heard of it.") If they're too pushy or intimidating, it's hard to spot genuinely suspicious answers or behavior.

One of the main problems with this kind of screening is that it requires training, practice and skill. Ex-cops are pretty good at it, from what I understand, but that kind of experience is in short supply.

How did you like Santarpios?

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#316

Post by nekopa »

Nrsolis wrote: post #307
userulluipeste wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But my mother fled a country (her European home country and the country of her birth) that tried to kill her and every one like her." Bad things happen, US has its own sins with wiped-out indigenous populations. The idea is to correct ourselves and to make things better. Apologetic attitudes aren't helpful in this regard. BTW, which is that European country if you don't mind?

Nazi Germany. My mother was born during the Third Reich. Just lucky I guess. BTW, my bartender is Croatian. Ask him how he feels about Europe. IN fact, ask anyone who's had a chance to see what the USA is really like and compare it to their home country. I know a certain Italian grad student who is so desperate to stay here he's on his SECOND Ph.D. I visited Italy and it seems nice, but apparently he places a high pr…

I've had a chance to see the US. From NY to LA, Mississippi and Denver to Hawaii and Alaska. And I am never going back to live there.

And I am an American. I used to be so proud of my country that I even quit working in IT for a few years to join the military (US Air Force). People would ask each other 'Why did you join?' the normal answer being healthcare or university. When they asked me I would just say 'America has been pretty good to me, I wanted to pay back the favor' Nobody quite knew what to make of this as I spent most half of my life growing up around the world (mainly Europe) and my father's side of my family is Cherokee Indian and black.

The US now (since 9/11 basically) is a shadow of what it used to be. Reading headlines about American government actions is like reading about the good ol' USSR back in the 70s and 80s. Except in the 80s Europe tore down a wall, whilst nowadays the US is building walls (both literally and policy wise)

It's a good thing your mother didnt have to try and enter the America of today to escape persecution. She'd probably be turned away at the border.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#317

Post by blisterpeanuts »

lewaldman wrote: post #269
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is misinformation in the extreme. 60% of Israeli Jews are from Arab countries, or their parents and grandparents were, and they are very similar in appearance to Arabs. There are also thousands of Ethiopian Jews with even darker skin. The European Jews with fair skin constitute only a part of the population, maybe half or less than half (there is a lot of intermarriage). Israeli border agents can't do racial pro…

> 60% of Israeli Jews are from Arab countries, or their parents and grandparents were, and they are very similar in appearance to Arabs Sorry, but you are wrong regarding the impossibility of do a "race" profiling. I'm a Jew and lived for 6 year in Israel. You can spot in a fraction of a second an arab jew from an arab muslin, from an arab christian. They can look alike phisicaly, but the behavior, cloths, accents, b…

Right, and I'm sure they use those differences in profiling; my point was that it's not simple skin color profiling as per stop-and-frisk in NYC.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#318

Post by Spooky23 »

smileysteve wrote: post #263
Spooky23 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Border agents are paid to be paranoid. You don't talk to police like you talk to a friend -- you keep the scope of the conversation limited to the question asked. You don't introduce the topic of Al-Qaeda. You don't go into political/religous discussions. Once you do that, you're putting the border agent/cop in a position where he needs to apply subjective judgement. You avoid that by not inserting unrelated nois…

That's a horrible way to greet visitors - or to make them feel like they need to research the police before visiting a country.

Yes, it is.

It's an issue everywhere there are cops and politics. Every country has some goofy immigration thing to deal with. If you travel the world and are ignorant of the countries you visit, you'll run into trouble.

For example: Canada is probably one of the most chilled-out countries in the world. Nice place, friendly people, no kafka-factor -- Unless you're travelling with a party of people, and somebody was convicted of DWI a decade ago. That individual cannot enter Canada without a visa. Kind of sucks when you're in a car trying to cross one of the smaller St. Lawrence river crossings -- you're stuck in the middle of nowhere.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#319

Post by coldshot »

Another european citizen getting to learn the realities of the world. As many others mentioned he has no idea about what's going on in EU for 'others'. That attitude is almost the same everywhere in the world, only enemies, minorities and passports need to be watched change.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#320

Post by Nrsolis »

nekopa wrote: post #316
Nrsolis wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nazi Germany. My mother was born during the Third Reich. Just lucky I guess. BTW, my bartender is Croatian. Ask him how he feels about Europe. IN fact, ask anyone who's had a chance to see what the USA is really like and compare it to their home country. I know a certain Italian grad student who is so desperate to stay here he's on his SECOND Ph.D. I visited Italy and it seems nice, but apparently he places a high pr…

I've had a chance to see the US. From NY to LA, Mississippi and Denver to Hawaii and Alaska. And I am never going back to live there. And I am an American. I used to be so proud of my country that I even quit working in IT for a few years to join the military (US Air Force). People would ask each other 'Why did you join?' the normal answer being healthcare or university. When they asked me I would just say 'America h…

Read up on your history. Before WWII, they WERE turned away at the border. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis

My mother was rescued as an orphan by Catholic missionaries. Turns out that Catholic girls look just like Jewish ones if you squint hard enough.

Anyhow, enjoy your vacation. And remember to pay your taxes.

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