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Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

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Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#211

Post by crusso »

cstross wrote: post #24

Interestingly, in the developed world it seems to be the Anglophone countries that have the shittiest attitude towards border control these days. The US is notoriously user-hostile at the borders. The UK is doing its best to catch up in a Mini-Me way with the USA's Dr Evil, and is actually on course to become even more hostile than the USA -- the only mitigating factor is that the third degree is reserved for non-cit…

Anglophone countries that have the shittiest attitude towards border control these days

Meh, any Western hand-wringing about the evils of Anglophones has to be counter-balanced with the fact that net migration to those "evil" countries continues at a brisk pace, often illegally.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#212

Post by senorprogrammer »

ma2rten wrote: post #192
thaumasiotes wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done a fair amount of back-and-forth between the US and China. On my most recent entry (to the US), the phase 1 guy flagged me to have my carryon manually inspected because I took the trouble to answer his questions honestly (bizarrely, the search did not involve a search of my person, or my checked luggage, so I can't imagine what it was supposed to accomplish). That forced my mother to wait an extra hour to pi…

To me as an European it already crazy enough, that the US even interviews it's own citizens. In the EU if you are an EU citizen you just get waived though at immigration. (At might still get checked later at customs but that is a 1 in 100 chance).

As a Canadian I've learned we seem to get practically waved through as well. The most pleasant immigration experiences I've ever had have been in Germany and France over the past few years. By far the least pleasant experiences have been travelling from Canada to the US.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#213

Post by bmelton »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #126
crusso wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US immigration is broken on so many levels. A lot of our immigration problems stem from a political desire to increase voter rolls for one particular party. The Democrat party benefits greatly from illegal immigration from Mexico, so they refuse to do anything whatsoever to control that flow. That's great for Democrats to win elections and all, but it creates a backlash against immigration in general. Ironically, the…

The Democrat party benefits greatly from illegal immigration from Mexico Could you back up that assertion with proof, or at least with some sound reasoning. While I can accept that Latinos tend to vote democrat illegal immigrants can't vote to begin with. So it certainly doesn't follow that "The Democrat party benefits greatly from illegal immigration from Mexico" To me that sounds a bit like partisan mud slinging, I…

> illegal immigrants can't vote to begin with

On a related note, this is why there's a rather huge debate over whether or not someone should be required to provide identification when they vote.

Without trying to spark a partisan discussion, those taking positions against voter ID requirements are the ones you'd expect to be opposed to illegal immigrants voting, and those in favor of voter ID requirements are the ones you'd expect to benefit the most from illegal immigrants voting.

Meanwhile, both sides have framed the argument in ways that bring up everything except immigration.

In short, while I won't comment on who's right and who's wrong, the immigration debate in our country has nothing to do with immigration, and everything to do with the political windfall of which party gets to inherit the new voting bloc.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#214

Post by Spooky23 »

NateDad wrote: post #23
bsdetector wrote: post #19

> When I'm supposed to watch my words, I tend to say the wrong ones. No kidding. Volunteering that he was in Al Qaeda territory... to take pictures of plants. Saying he's a nihilist. Suggesting that the levees in New Orleans might break again while he's visiting. Having Jewish ancestry, but denying being Jewish because not religious. Also appears he was also traveling alone to many of these places, without any busine…

I think you're wrong, and I'm sorry that people like you are the ones working on the border. He was obviously travelling all around the world sight-seeing. He had tons of proof of that. The border patrol were paranoid and idiotic. Keeping random people out who "seem" like they might be dangerous is not going to prevent any problems. It's just going to make the rest of the world hate us more.

The Border agents are paid to be paranoid.

You don't talk to police like you talk to a friend -- you keep the scope of the conversation limited to the question asked. You don't introduce the topic of Al-Qaeda. You don't go into political/religous discussions. Once you do that, you're putting the border agent/cop in a position where he needs to apply subjective judgement. You avoid that by not inserting unrelated noise into the conversation.

This isn't a US issue -- it's a clueless person issue.

Related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#215

Post by CountHackulus »

FreshCode wrote: post #156

As a white foreigner who has considered travelling to the US for a holiday or working in the Valley, these types of reports have a long-term chain reaction on my willingness to start thinking about packing my bags for the States. I wonder if the powers that be understand how far-reaching bad treatments of foreign travellers can be. Or maybe I'm just one developer and my sentiment has no effect in the long run. Do oth…

You're not alone, I feel the same. I'm becoming increasingly hesitant to go to the US for a vacation, despite there being some places I really want to visit. I've even turned down two very good job offers in the US.

My other developer friends seem to have similar, though not quite as advanced, feelings about the US. When I mention not wanting to go to the US I get plenty of "yeah, I don't blame you" responses.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#216

Post by borplk »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #144
aneeskA wrote: post #4

It is in US that you will realize your name is your biggest enemy.

Under US law, any person may change their name to anything at any time for any reason. So if your name is really your biggest enemy, the fix is not so hard.

The fix is somewhere else.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#217

Post by misterjangles »

DanBC wrote: post #181
misterjangles wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The border patrol could care less whether you are a broke student or a rich tourist. They are not interested in how much you plan to spend. So in that regard I would think you might as well tell them the truth simply because if you get caught in a lie then you would cause grief for yourself of no good reason. But if you are an excellent liar, then go for what're you want! Basically the border patrol are looking for t…

When they say "What's the purpose of your visit?", and you say "I'm just here to visit. Hope to spend lots of money." and they see your study books, you've basically left yourself open to hours of detention and questioning?

Well if your story doesn't seem to add up then you might find yourself explaining things.

My point is really that there is no advantage to lying about being a student vs a rich tourist because they don't favor one over the other. They're not going to think "oh boy this person is really going to help our economy!"

Now, if you are planning to work illegally or overstay your visa - then you might want to make up a story!

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#218

Post by a3n »

mcv wrote: post #172
girvo wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had UK and Australian Customs officers be similarly incredulous over places I've visited. Honestly, those jobs don't seem to attract the "best and brightest". Nor attract those who even have a passing familiarity with geopolitics and geography. Sigh

Why would any border guard be incredulous over anyone visiting far away places? You'd expect border guards to be used to meeting foreigners. And there's lots of foreign parts in the world. Why would anyone visit X? Because it's there. Because people live there. Because there are things to see. What other reason do you need?

Why would border guards react this way? For some, a job that has arbitrary power attracts people who want arbitrary power.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#219

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #179
rbehrends wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the border patrol agents use a person's presumed Jewishness as part of their rationale to deny them entry, they should indeed know what they're talking about. It's not something that they were forced to deal with; it was a reason they manufactured themselves (out of whole cloth, as it so happens). Not being familiar with religious customs is not a crime, but then you shouldn't use your ignorance to adjudicate a ca…

The agent found it odd that someone with a Jewish name would visit those countries. Customs, practices, etc are utterly irrelevant.

Most contemporary Ashkenazi Jewish names are German in origin.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#220

Post by [deleted] »

crusso wrote: post #57
jballanc wrote: post #33

I don't think it's ever been easy to get into the US. A tour through Ellis Island will tell you as much. The difference is that, in the past, the US needed its immigrants. They built its cities and its railroads and much of the US's early industry. Later the US's immigrants were its main source of scientific advancements...but the US's relationship with its immigrants has, I think, always been strained. The differenc…

US immigration is broken on so many levels. A lot of our immigration problems stem from a political desire to increase voter rolls for one particular party. The Democrat party benefits greatly from illegal immigration from Mexico, so they refuse to do anything whatsoever to control that flow. That's great for Democrats to win elections and all, but it creates a backlash against immigration in general. Ironically, the…

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