Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#111

Post by crusso » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 10:52 PM UTC

legohead wrote: post #69

blah32497 wrote: post #13

As a Russian-American this comes off as complete BS. I've seen this written before and it's always in the form of "It's not us that smile too little, it's you Americans that are fake and smile too much!". For one, Americans don't just smile to be polite. For the most part it's genuinely conveying positive emotions. Now I know this is going to be unpopular, but I think the real reason Russians don't smile is cultural.…

As an American who married a Russian and lived in Russia for a while, I find this article to be quite accurate. When visiting for the first time, I asked my (then-acquaintance) why women never smile at me. She said "if they smile at you, that means they are easy." Basically, they are saying they like me and I should introduce myself. Or, like the article mentioned, maybe I look funny. You are right in that it is cult…

Right. A Romanian friend of mine told me that when he moved to the US, he thought that the women would be easy and sleep with him because they were smiling so much.

He was a bit disappointed at the lack of follow-through.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#112

Post by kutakbash » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 10:53 PM UTC

mrjj wrote: post #75

Hi, i'm Russian sociologist of culture. The conclusion about different culture code and semantic is right. But there is more some interesting things. Russians have really poor toothcare, and this is joined with non-smiling bidirectionally. There is nothing abnormal for Russian to have couple of missing teeth. I've seen a really rich people (for example owner of Rolls Royce fleet) with just a couple of yellow teeth le…

That's pretty interesting and bears some ramifications. Like the fact that Americans might have been not a smiling bunch before dentistry became widely accessible (this might have happened not too long ago). Or that before advent of cariogenic foodstuffs (eg in Middle Ages and antiquity) people tended to smile more. I wonder if it is any true.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#113

Post by leokun » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 10:55 PM UTC

I've never seen too many people smile waiting for Bart either, and I've looked for smiles.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#114

Post by zeteo » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 10:56 PM UTC

crusso wrote: post #109

zeteo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this comes off as complete BS. I've seen this written before and it's always in the form of "It's not us that smile too little, it's you Americans that are fake and smile too much!" Which is pretty much what the article quotes Russians as saying. Without agreeing with them, of course. >I think the real reason Russians don't smile is cultural. Again, you're agreeing with the article - and contradicting your subseque…

No, the article is claiming that to Westerners a smile is neutral and that to a Russian no smile is neutral. The article is making the implication that a smiling Westerner and a non-smiling Russian are expressing the same emotion, it's just that the Westerner is faking something. The poster to whom you're responding is actually saying that the no smile in Russia is because of an actual underlying difference in the em…

>the article is claiming that to Westerners a smile is neutral [...] The article is making the implication that a smiling Westerner [...] is faking something.

I don't see where you got the second sentence as the article's implication. Especially since it's rather contradictory with the first sentence.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#115

Post by kutakbash » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 10:57 PM UTC

cLeEOGPw wrote: post #104

wonderzombie wrote: post #26

That said, the Russian humor page for Wikipedia is can be a real treat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_jokes . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_jokes#The_Golden_Fish may be one of my favorites on there. A Russian friend of mine explained that it's sort of inappropriate to go around smiling, esp for males. There's also kind of a cultural thing going on where Russians perceive themselves as being able to scre…

> A Russian friend of mine explained that it's sort of inappropriate to go around smiling, esp for males. This is very true. If a male is smiling, it means he is showing his submission and in turn is subconsciously treated by other males as a lower level male. The exact system of hierarchy signs exists in chimps. For me it seems like russians together with some other cultures managed to save this body language compon…

What's your point? Russians don't smile because they are chimps, but Lithuanians don't smile because they are true to themselves and others? Ok.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#116

Post by RivieraKid » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 10:57 PM UTC

schrodinger wrote: post #107

RivieraKid wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Prague and I was always baffled by this. How does the smiling thing work? In what situations do you smile? For example, if you're walking on street, do you eye-contact people going in the opposite direction and smile at them?

You don't make eye contact with everyone you walk by, no. But if you do happen to make eye contact, you typically smile - and it would be a little awkward if you didn't. I think there's a difference between a polite smile of acknowledgement and a smile give to someone that you already know well, however.

Interesting, this certainly doesn't happen here...

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#117

Post by xentronium » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 10:57 PM UTC

romanovcode wrote: post #83

fasouto wrote: post #16

Relevant: The grumpy Russian traveler http://imgur.com/a/4ix4I

There is some backstory to these pictures. At least there was on Reddit when it was first posted, can't prove that it's true or not. Anyway, his wife died and he is visiting all the places she/they went and making pictures to close himself of her.

http://lenta.ru/articles/2013/02/28/grumpy/ interview with the guy, if you can read Russian (he's from Belarus, by the way). Doesn't seem there is any real back story to it actually.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#118

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 11:00 PM UTC

schrodinger wrote: post #107

RivieraKid wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Prague and I was always baffled by this. How does the smiling thing work? In what situations do you smile? For example, if you're walking on street, do you eye-contact people going in the opposite direction and smile at them?

You don't make eye contact with everyone you walk by, no. But if you do happen to make eye contact, you typically smile - and it would be a little awkward if you didn't. I think there's a difference between a polite smile of acknowledgement and a smile give to someone that you already know well, however.

[deleted]

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#119

Post by schrodinger » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 11:02 PM UTC

elsurudo wrote: post #3

I'd generalize this to (continental) Europeans, and it becomes more true the further East you go. Being in Poland, I notice the same thing. However, I did notice that New Yorkers are also closer to the "Russian" camp. Not totally (especially when it comes to retail), but closer...

It's just that you have a limited amount of smile capital to spread per day. In New York, it gets stretched pretty thin...

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#120

Post by crusso » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 11:06 PM UTC

zeteo wrote: post #114

crusso wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the article is claiming that to Westerners a smile is neutral and that to a Russian no smile is neutral. The article is making the implication that a smiling Westerner and a non-smiling Russian are expressing the same emotion, it's just that the Westerner is faking something. The poster to whom you're responding is actually saying that the no smile in Russia is because of an actual underlying difference in the em…

>the article is claiming that to Westerners a smile is neutral [...] The article is making the implication that a smiling Westerner [...] is faking something. I don't see where you got the second sentence as the article's implication. Especially since it's rather contradictory with the first sentence.

I'm trying to see how you find those statements to be contradictory.

Maybe you think that the same concept is being discussed in the two sentences? Really there are multiple concepts at play so calling one of them neutral relative to one another and the other one "fake" isn't a contradiction at all. They're different things.

Just because the emotion being expressed is supposed to be neutral doesn't mean that the facial expression can't be implying something more. The article author's contention is that the facial expression is fake and expressing more of an emotion than is present, given that the "real" underlying emotion is one of neutrality in the smile and no-smile cases.