Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#71

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 9:39 PM UTC

pilsetnieks wrote: post #48

wavefunction wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that most of Western Europe is socialist? That some of the countries that enjoy the highest quality of life and happiness are socialist? How do you square that with what you've written?

On a tangential note, it's not quite right to call the European system socialist. "Social democracy" might be more correct, otherwise people confuse it with communist socialism which is an entirely different regime with much more negative connotations. There are very few things in common between the systems in, say, Sweden and Soviet Russia.

[deleted]

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#72

Post by seszett » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 9:39 PM UTC

this_user wrote: post #64

pilsetnieks wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a tangential note, it's not quite right to call the European system socialist. "Social democracy" might be more correct, otherwise people confuse it with communist socialism which is an entirely different regime with much more negative connotations. There are very few things in common between the systems in, say, Sweden and Soviet Russia.

As a European I find it interesting how Americans have started to completely misusing the term 'socialism' especially over the last couple of years. Even those who don't fit the die-hard right-wing profile seem to have started calling any kind of social welfare 'socialsm' without realising what actual socialism looks like.

To me, what's surprising is the contrary: that people call communism "socialism". While here in France, our Socialist Party (in power right now) has always been far from communism.

It feels strange to me to call social welfare anything other than socialism. Maybe it's just a case of French socialisme and English socialism being false friends.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#73

Post by msl09 » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 9:40 PM UTC

Are Russians klingons?

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#74

Post by sejje » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 9:40 PM UTC

forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #22

blah32497 wrote: post #13

As a Russian-American this comes off as complete BS. I've seen this written before and it's always in the form of "It's not us that smile too little, it's you Americans that are fake and smile too much!". For one, Americans don't just smile to be polite. For the most part it's genuinely conveying positive emotions. Now I know this is going to be unpopular, but I think the real reason Russians don't smile is cultural.…

I agree and I had my remark down voted, you know it by the number of suicides. We pay a price for living with terrible weather, with no sun light half of the year, where you can't get out of buildings because it is so freezing cold. I would say what you see in places like Costa Rica(pura vida!!) is genuine happiness because people need much more the Sun and friendships for being happy than a Ferrari or whatever we co…

I've been living in CR for a few months now, and I can say I've met a ton of genuinely happy people.

I don't know if I can fully credit the sun, but there's something going on here.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#75

Post by mrjj » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 9:41 PM UTC

Hi, i'm Russian sociologist of culture.

The conclusion about different culture code and semantic is right.

But there is more some interesting things. Russians have really poor toothcare, and this is joined with non-smiling bidirectionally. There is nothing abnormal for Russian to have couple of missing teeth. I've seen a really rich people (for example owner of Rolls Royce fleet) with just a couple of yellow teeth left... man, you should never smile with this.

Also there is a lot of mimic signals except mouth area muscles tension, especially orbicularis oculi tension, that subconsciously telling that we are smiling. I've noticed that this secondary features is also less often for Russians relative to west and east Europeans. This is also true for voice tone and other subconscious traces of smile. So the low-level mental trigger for smile not firing at all.

So i can assert that this is not about smiling, its about more deep communicational norms like, literally, answering "sorely" on "how are u?", that means "i'm complaining so i'm sincere to you and trusting you", the essence of social stroking is different. Yip, assumptions that the Russians is same in everything but the culture codes is wrong, we are pretty depressed nation.

Anyway, i see that norm is changing nowadays along with life quality increasing, European culture codes expansion, and toothcare, heh.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#76

Post by sejje » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 9:42 PM UTC

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #39

nostromo wrote: post #9

There's really no need to be stingy with your smile. If you smile more often at work, even if there's nothing specific to be happy about, it really does lighten up the mood and make people cheerier. People will want to work with you more. Also, I hope I don't sound like a sociopath here, but smiles are a form of brain hacking. If they are genuine, or at least seem genuine, they disarm people and make them more recept…

To be perfectly honest, and I'm not trying to be personally aggressive here, that kind of behavior makes me want to punch people in the face. A smile is an involuntary response. Unless you are a really, really good actor with full control over ever muscle in your body, people will spot a fake smile ("if there's nothing specific to be happy about") from a mile away. It's not even a conscious thing, human body language…

So make it a genuine smile, by working something into the conversation/pitch/whatever that is authentic and amusing to you.

Not to mention, I'm guessing you're in the huge minority here. Like people who boycott products with annoying ads. Annoying ads which are proven to work.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#77

Post by Demiurge » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 9:43 PM UTC

badger288 wrote: post #51

Demiurge wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might have your opinion, but this article is a re-iteration of something that has been pretty much established by people who study verbal and non-verbal communication (professionally). You might say this has cultural origins in 'Russian misery', but the article outlines present day meanings of smiling and not smiling in Russia and in USA.

how/where would someone be able to study that? sounds like an interesting subject. right now i'm studying for public health related field, and something like that could come very handy. please tell! :-)

I think its one of those interdisciplinary things you can approach from multiple angles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinesics

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#78

Post by wmgries » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 9:49 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #52

javert wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism makes every other person a potential enemy and a potential victim. Resources are scarce. People come to hate one another. Capitalism makes every other person at worst a neutral non-threat and at best a potential trading partner. Resources are plentiful. People feel benevolent towards one another. This is not an apology for America; America is only semi-capitalist. You can see Americans getting meaner over t…

> Socialism makes every other person a potential enemy and a potential victim. Resources are scarce. People come to hate one another. You're taking a look at countries that have implemented 'socialism' and ended up with what amounts to dictatorships. Do you really think that Communism as envisioned by Karl Marx included someone like Stalin, or the corrupt officials that inhabited governments in the Eastern Bloc? For…

Regulation and Keynesian policies are not socialism.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#79

Post by colkassad » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 9:55 PM UTC

When I first moved to eastern Europe I couldn't make friends at all. After a few months I started to get really discouraged and somewhat depressed and stopped trying to engage people. As soon as that happened, my social life did a 180.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#80

Post by aortega » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 9:56 PM UTC

softbuilder wrote: post #5

I worked with some Russians a few years ago. Great guys. One wasn't very well adapted to American culture. He came to my cube one day. He's like "Let's go get a smoke", but his face and tone was flat, so it came across as "You've pissed me off in some way and I'm probably going to kick your ass now". I demurred. A couple more offers over the next few days and I finally relented (I don't smoke, but went to hang out).…

Something that always shocked me in my travels to USA is how much people smile at you. The most weird thing is that it doesn't seem that fake, it seems complete strangers are just not afraid of you and happy to see you. Contrast it with Brazil, unlike USA people don't smile at you in the streets there, but if they know you they can't stop laughing. Brazilians parties are non-stop full-volume laughing. It's maddening!