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Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

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Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#261

Post by mkr-hn »

melindajb wrote: post #228
pron wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google fascinates me. I think it is possibly the first organization in history that embodies concepts from dystopic fiction. Putting a real face to those dystopic ideas can give us a sense of what a true dystopia looks like (short answer: it looks deceptively nice; the horror reveals itself only on close inspection). You mention work. As you say, Google does not just want their employees' time. They want their comple…

I've wondered for awhile about this. Having lived through the first wave of tech companies, where the idea of perks was bagel wednesday and free coffee, I find myself a bit amused at the naked desire to own employees' entire lives. As I worked with more milennials I think I've stumbled across something, and Google (consciously?) tapped into it, brilliantly. The children of the baby boomers, so eager to use social net…

It's always weird to read accounts of experiences with my age group that diverge wildly from my own experience. Everyone I know is hard working and completely open to criticism. Maybe you just got a bad batch in your local experience. Religious observance is near absent, but no one I know is without morals.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#262

Post by melindajb »

mkr-hn wrote: post #261
melindajb wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered for awhile about this. Having lived through the first wave of tech companies, where the idea of perks was bagel wednesday and free coffee, I find myself a bit amused at the naked desire to own employees' entire lives. As I worked with more milennials I think I've stumbled across something, and Google (consciously?) tapped into it, brilliantly. The children of the baby boomers, so eager to use social net…

It's always weird to read accounts of experiences with my age group that diverge wildly from my own experience. Everyone I know is hard working and completely open to criticism. Maybe you just got a bad batch in your local experience. Religious observance is near absent, but no one I know is without morals.

I don't mean immoral. I mean amoral.

From grammarist:

The adjective immoral means contrary to established moral principles. Immoral actions are corrupt, unethical, sinful, or just wrong. Amoral means (1) neither moral nor immoral, or (2) lacking moral sensibility. So while immoral and amoral might share a little common ground, there is a clear distinction: immoral things are bad, and amoral things are either neutral from a moral perspective or simply removed from moral considerations.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#263

Post by mkr-hn »

melindajb wrote: post #262
mkr-hn wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always weird to read accounts of experiences with my age group that diverge wildly from my own experience. Everyone I know is hard working and completely open to criticism. Maybe you just got a bad batch in your local experience. Religious observance is near absent, but no one I know is without morals.

I don't mean immoral. I mean amoral. From grammarist: The adjective immoral means contrary to established moral principles. Immoral actions are corrupt, unethical, sinful, or just wrong. Amoral means (1) neither moral nor immoral, or (2) lacking moral sensibility. So while immoral and amoral might share a little common ground, there is a clear distinction: immoral things are bad, and amoral things are either neutral…

Are you talking about religious morals or humanist morals? No one I know lacks moral sensibility. Some of them even derive their set from religion.

I had a look at my own OED, and it agrees with your definition. It's still not an accurate depiction of the morals of anyone I know.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#264

Post by aryastark »

sbuk wrote: post #201
pron wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google fascinates me. I think it is possibly the first organization in history that embodies concepts from dystopic fiction. Putting a real face to those dystopic ideas can give us a sense of what a true dystopia looks like (short answer: it looks deceptively nice; the horror reveals itself only on close inspection). You mention work. As you say, Google does not just want their employees' time. They want their comple…

I'm not a massive fan of Google, but in their defense they dropped the moto in 2009[0]. [0] http://www.siliconvalleywatcher.com/mt/archives/2009/04/goog...

reminds me a bit of Animal Farm. Where the rules on the farm slowly change over time, allowing for more and more transgressions to occur. 2009 is also, I believe, around when Google started recording WiFi data with their street view cars.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#265

Post by melindajb »

mkr-hn wrote: post #263
melindajb wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean immoral. I mean amoral. From grammarist: The adjective immoral means contrary to established moral principles. Immoral actions are corrupt, unethical, sinful, or just wrong. Amoral means (1) neither moral nor immoral, or (2) lacking moral sensibility. So while immoral and amoral might share a little common ground, there is a clear distinction: immoral things are bad, and amoral things are either neutral…

Are you talking about religious morals or humanist morals? No one I know lacks moral sensibility. Some of them even derive their set from religion. I had a look at my own OED, and it agrees with your definition. It's still not an accurate depiction of the morals of anyone I know.

Lucky you! (and I mean it).

I more think about it this way--and hey, if I chose the wrong word, do correct me.

When we are changing the world with our technology we don't really stop to think about all the people who will be put out of work by it. We don't as a community really care much about the impact of our companies on our communities (giving to local arts organizations and volunteer efforts in SF are not rising concurrently with population or wealth).

To be fair, this thinking isn't limited to milennials, it's just that as children they were more likely to have been raised without the early foundation of morals which are usually taught by religion.

I do not in any way mean to imply religion is necessary for morals, just statistically that's how most people get them. I also don't mean to imply milennials are criminals, just that well, it doesn't occur to them to think sometimes about the impact of their choices; or if they do, they don't care. Hell, maybe I was that way in my 20s and I've conveniently forgotten it...so maybe it's a function of youth.

The brittleness though? absolutely. Most of them are deeply insecure, fundamentally needing a lot of praise. I don't mind , because that's the kind of leader/manager I like to be; but adversity is hard for them to deal with.

I sometimes think one's attitude toward all this is dependent on when one arrives in the area; for myself having arrived during the bust of 2002 I feel perpetually like "winter is coming." for those for who it has always been prosperous springtime, it's hard to realize how important it is to squirrel away money, karma, connections, etc.

Random musings. YMMV.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#266

Post by melindajb »

pron wrote: post #234
melindajb wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered for awhile about this. Having lived through the first wave of tech companies, where the idea of perks was bagel wednesday and free coffee, I find myself a bit amused at the naked desire to own employees' entire lives. As I worked with more milennials I think I've stumbled across something, and Google (consciously?) tapped into it, brilliantly. The children of the baby boomers, so eager to use social net…

You mention religion, and I think not by accident. I find Google's founders' involvement with the Burning Man festival to be a guiding principle of how they perceive work and society. Burning Man adopts many religious ideas and practices, most of all the power of religious ecstatic experiences. Max Weber tried to tie the rise of protestant christianity to the rise of capitalism. He postulated that the ascetic ideals…

this is what keeps me coming back to HN. thanks for the insights. very interesting....people always want something to believe in, whether it's god, country, exercise, companies, etc. Religion (of any kind) is one of the best sources of dopamine.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=is-there-a-...

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#267

Post by melindajb »

Amadou wrote: post #256
melindajb wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother's high school class of men were almost entirely killed in Vietnam. She told me this and i'll never forget it: "hate the war, hate the government, but never, ever hate the soldier." Just don't do it. It's disrespectful to the sacrifice so many make, every day. Not to mention in the world we live in the USA, most of the people in the military are from poor families, simply because they have no other choice an…

We will always have an army, would you rather it be through conscription or volunteer? As an 18 year old man I would have said "volunteer" no question. As someone who had a nephew volunteer, my mind is now completely changed and am 100% for conscription. Egalitarian conscription means mothers across the country have a major stake in any decision to go to war -- even if their kid has not (yet) been drafted. You can be…

May I suggest you review Vietnam history? In fact, if you want to skip facts and just listen to some music consider the classic Creedence Clearwater Revival Song, "Fortunate Son."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec0XKhAHR5I

Some folks are born to wave the flag, Ooh, they're red, white and blue. And when the band plays "Hail to the chief", Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son. It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no, Yeah!

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand, Lord, don't they help themselves, oh. But when the taxman comes to the door, Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yes,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no millionaire's son, no. It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no.

Some folks inherit star spangled eyes, Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord, And when you ask them, "How much should we give?" Ooh, they only answer More! more! more! yoh,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no military son, son. It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, one. It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no no no, It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate son, no no no,

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#268

Post by Amadou »

melindajb wrote: post #267
Amadou wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will always have an army, would you rather it be through conscription or volunteer? As an 18 year old man I would have said "volunteer" no question. As someone who had a nephew volunteer, my mind is now completely changed and am 100% for conscription. Egalitarian conscription means mothers across the country have a major stake in any decision to go to war -- even if their kid has not (yet) been drafted. You can be…

May I suggest you review Vietnam history? In fact, if you want to skip facts and just listen to some music consider the classic Creedence Clearwater Revival Song, "Fortunate Son." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec0XKhAHR5I Some folks are born to wave the flag, Ooh, they're red, white and blue. And when the band plays "Hail to the chief", Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord, It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no s…

May I suggest you review Vietnam history?

Given the steady decline in the number of congressional kids in the military since the draft was suspended it seems pretty clear that the situation has only gotten worse since vietnam. Don't confuse imperfection with failure.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#269

Post by BlackDeath3 »

timr wrote: post #65

If you ask me, one of Google's biggest strategic successes was their ability to convince an entire generation of engineers that they were something other than a company. The way many (otherwise intelligent) people talk about it, you'd think it was a religion. What you're seeing here is not the shattering of a dream, but of an illusion -- Google hasn't been a scrappy, idealistic startup for many years. It's a fine com…

The Church of Google.

Who wants to fund a documentary?

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#270

Post by serge2k »

melindajb wrote: post #228
pron wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google fascinates me. I think it is possibly the first organization in history that embodies concepts from dystopic fiction. Putting a real face to those dystopic ideas can give us a sense of what a true dystopia looks like (short answer: it looks deceptively nice; the horror reveals itself only on close inspection). You mention work. As you say, Google does not just want their employees' time. They want their comple…

I've wondered for awhile about this. Having lived through the first wave of tech companies, where the idea of perks was bagel wednesday and free coffee, I find myself a bit amused at the naked desire to own employees' entire lives. As I worked with more milennials I think I've stumbled across something, and Google (consciously?) tapped into it, brilliantly. The children of the baby boomers, so eager to use social net…

Oh cool,I don't practice religion so I'm an amoral heathen.
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