Google's Decline Really Bugs Me • Hacker News Board

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#231

Post by melindajb » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 3:52 PM UTC

vdaniuk wrote: post #151

chrissnell wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you served or if you were just alluding to it but your last point got me thinking: In the Army, I lived the most barebones kind of lifestyle and did a job that often put my family through hell but was buoyed by the feeling that I was part of the most noble of professions. In this industry, I've provided incredible privilege, comfort, and stability for my family but have always felt that this industry…

Is this sarcasm? Do you really consider being in the Army a noble profession? And do you think that the software industry serves humanity in general less than military industry?

My mother's high school class of men were almost entirely killed in Vietnam.

She told me this and i'll never forget it: "hate the war, hate the government, but never, ever hate the soldier." Just don't do it. It's disrespectful to the sacrifice so many make, every day.

Not to mention in the world we live in the USA, most of the people in the military are from poor families, simply because they have no other choice and the army gets them an education.

We will always have an army, would you rather it be through conscription or volunteer?

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#232

Post by melindajb » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 3:57 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #216

crusso wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

I know it looks like that, but that reaction happens often right after it. Of course I didn't like not being accepted (that was in 2007 btw). But based on what now is showing and the opinion of people that have worked there (and the jobs I had afterwards) I see that it didn't matter much in the end, and I believe that even though having Google in your CV is something that's good, not entering allowed me to pursue a l…

I'm with you. I was recruited by them just after the IPO. During the interview process I was also close to an offer from another company, and I mentioned this. I was told the process would take up to six weeks and it wouldn't change.

I was then told by the recruiter that "it would be unfortunate" if I had to abandon the recruiting process because I'd gotten another job offer. I said, "unfortunate for whom? Certainly not for me."

The last straw was when I found out that you don't get to meet your manager before you accept the job, or do know exactly what you'd be doing; and that was a deal killer. Your manager IS your job or certainly your happiness in it. I walked away, and have never been happier about that decision.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#233

Post by pit » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 4:03 PM UTC

Someone wrote: post #25

guybrushT wrote: post #14

Reports of Google's decline are greatly exaggerated :) G+ is annoying, but these days no large company can make all their users happy, with all their products/features/changes, all the time. The so-called erosion of 'Don't be evil' has just become more apparent now, but as long as I have known google, they always made money from ads - and ads are fundamentally evil (IMHO). Search, maps, email etc are quite nice and I…

Ads are _fundamentally_ evil? What mechanism do you propose for bringing new products to the attention of customers, then? Or are new products and/or customers also fundamentally evil, IYHO?

Word of mouth.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#234

Post by pron » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 4:05 PM UTC

melindajb wrote: post #228

pron wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google fascinates me. I think it is possibly the first organization in history that embodies concepts from dystopic fiction. Putting a real face to those dystopic ideas can give us a sense of what a true dystopia looks like (short answer: it looks deceptively nice; the horror reveals itself only on close inspection). You mention work. As you say, Google does not just want their employees' time. They want their comple…

I've wondered for awhile about this. Having lived through the first wave of tech companies, where the idea of perks was bagel wednesday and free coffee, I find myself a bit amused at the naked desire to own employees' entire lives. As I worked with more milennials I think I've stumbled across something, and Google (consciously?) tapped into it, brilliantly. The children of the baby boomers, so eager to use social net…

You mention religion, and I think not by accident. I find Google's founders' involvement with the Burning Man festival to be a guiding principle of how they perceive work and society. Burning Man adopts many religious ideas and practices, most of all the power of religious ecstatic experiences. Max Weber tried to tie the rise of protestant christianity to the rise of capitalism. He postulated that the ascetic ideals of protestant christianity urged people to adopt hard work as a central tenant of life. I think that Burning Man helps take this idea further. It turns work from an ascetic endeavor to an ecstatic one. Burning Man is the religion that underlies Google's view of work.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#235

Post by drewhk » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 4:13 PM UTC

brosco45 wrote: post #58

Yeah, I noticed Google interviewers are no longer showing enthusiasm during the interview, it's a very worrying sign.

Same here. On one screening the guy actually said "it is not like how you imagine it to be". And it did not sound as an encouragement.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#236

Post by crusso » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 4:32 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #216

crusso wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

I know it looks like that, but that reaction happens often right after it. Of course I didn't like not being accepted (that was in 2007 btw). But based on what now is showing and the opinion of people that have worked there (and the jobs I had afterwards) I see that it didn't matter much in the end, and I believe that even though having Google in your CV is something that's good, not entering allowed me to pursue a l…

Google selection process (not only theirs) is dysfunctional

You say that, yet they consistently field top talent in the industry. The fact is that all hiring is dysfunctional and imperfect in some way. Google's is less so than most everyone else's.

I think that at the end of the day, people don't like being rejected. That's understandable, but it's going to add some biased memes into the public consciousness that you have to mentally discount to a degree. I focus on the results they have.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#237

Post by superuser2 » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 4:35 PM UTC

pron wrote: post #192

alaskamiller wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While eating my second dinner plate of something delicious on the campus I looked around and saw how many children and families were around. The company provides, so much, for you, for your family. You wouldn't to ever lose what you have now gotten used to, for yourself, for your family. So now you become a company man. What's good for the company must be good for you. What's good about knowing more people, how they…

Google fascinates me. I think it is possibly the first organization in history that embodies concepts from dystopic fiction. Putting a real face to those dystopic ideas can give us a sense of what a true dystopia looks like (short answer: it looks deceptively nice; the horror reveals itself only on close inspection). You mention work. As you say, Google does not just want their employees' time. They want their comple…

This hyperbole is pretty extreme. Google embodies dystopian fiction because it

1) Didn't fall on its sword to spite the federal government. 2) Wanted to unify the identity systems across its products.

Are you serious?

The third party doctrine is something out of dystopian fiction. Congress and SCOTUS's behavior regarding national security is very 1984. But Google? Really?

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#238

Post by tonyplee » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 4:42 PM UTC

elastoplast wrote: post #191

dredmorbius wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a guy who inspired two top-level stories yesterday, a few speculations. For myself, the company I once turned to to provide me useful things, save me time, respect my privacy (and certainly not pester me for personal information or publicly link my activity across entirely independent activities and sites), and get out of the way of doing things, is now proving me increasingly useless, wasting my time, disrespecti…

I work at Google, have done for about 7 years now. This is my first comment at HN. I think your comment about "not coercive" is insightful. The biggest change I've seen over time here is that at the start, people never talked about what users should or should not do. They were treated as people who would use our products, or not, and that was A-OK. The subtle trend that underlies a lot of this recent outpouring of di…

Remember "Don't be evil".

The growing up of google felt like story line of Starwar.

Judi night grew up and felt the power of the dark side. :-)

Also remind me of another line: If you're young and you're not a Democrat, you don't have a heart. If you're old and you're a Republican, you don't have a brain.

Google has "mature" now. :-)

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#239

Post by squozzer » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 4:45 PM UTC

72deluxe wrote: post #171

bambax wrote: post #166

Turns out adult supervision wasn't all bad. I remember some time ago, probably 2002-2003 (?) when Bill Gates said something along the lines of "every tech company goes through a period of love at the beginning, and then that love turns to resentment; Google is in the middle of their "love" period and Microsoft is way past it; but that will change". And, like a newly wed, I remember thinking: nah, that can't change. M…

Haha driving a Renault Made me laugh, thanks!

I think (s)he meant, "Praying to god it doesn't break down on me again" while driving.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#240

Post by nhangen » Mon, Nov 18, 2013, 4:46 PM UTC

pa5tabear wrote: post #226

nhangen wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that the Armed Forces are now looked upon with disdain by hackers mere decades after the West wrested the world from Germany's grasp. Say what you want about the military industrial complex, but lets not forget that should any of our countries be invaded, we will be very grateful that those guns pointing at the invaders.

Disdain is inappropriate, but so is automatic praise. The media wants to paint this picture that members of the military choose to serve for altruistic reasons and that we need to celebrate them all. This may be true for some, but I think the majority are in the military more-so because they think it's their best option for starting a career. Additionally, the justness of military conflicts these days is far more que…

I agree. I served 4+ years in the Army and was deployed as part of OEF. I'm uncomfortable with the automatic praise; it's definitely not why I signed up.

However, given a choice I'd prefer that the scale remain tipped towards praise instead of neglect or ignorance.

It's true, not all Soldiers serve altruistically, but they serve nonetheless. It's fine to question the intent of our government, military, and its officers, but try to remember that for the most part, Soldiers are forced to follow orders or face jail time, and they are constantly reminded of this.

The recruitment pitch is vastly different from the reality. I remember many Tuesdays where we'd spend the day sweeping the motor pool, wondering if we really deserved the praise bestowed upon us. Rest assured, most Soldiers wrestle with this at some point during their career.