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Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

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Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#101

Post by mschulkind »

na85 wrote: post #83
mathattack wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does 20% realistically come between 80 and 100%, 100 and 120, or 120 and 140%?

What does that even mean? edit: Yes, let's downmod the guy who doesn't understand an obtusely-worded question. Well done.

It means that for a long time people have called it 120% time because most of the people who still 'used' their 20% time were working 120% the amount of people that didn't use their 20% time.

Despite Google not really stack ranking, it's kind of like inflation. If you work 40 hours a week and 20% of the time, you work on your 20% project, you look 20% worse than the average 40 hour a week worker that doesn't use their 20% time.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#102

Post by nostrademons »

auggierose wrote: post #44
michaelochurch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20% time is the idea that it's OK to put "only" 32 hours (or, in practice, 25-30) on your assigned project, but there is certainly not an 8-hour maximum on the side project. If you want a promotion, you'll have to put in more time than 25-32 hpw; but you won't get in trouble at that effort level. Of course, this is true in most companies-- a 25-hour effort on your assigned work is not low enough to get you fired, alm…

Still, a certain mental makeup is necessary to be able to switch between projects like that. When I work on a project that interests me, I go to bed thinking about it, and in the morning I want to continue where I left it. Often I'll see things clearer after such a sleep break, and then I cannot just switch to another project instead of trying out an idea I had.

This is a learnable skill, and one that is IMHO very worth learning.

I also have a tendency to want to just load a whole problem into my head, Think Real Hard, and then write down the solution as quickly as I can. It's a great strategy, when it works. The problem is that it doesn't scale - it sets a limit on the complexity of problems you can attack directly, and it prevents you from working on more than one problem at once.

So what I've found, as I work on more complex problems, is that I really need to adopt all those tactics that back in college I thought were reserved for "lesser" minds. Things like breaking down a problem into chunks and then writing down all the intermediate steps. Adopting a bug database, spreadsheet, or task management software. Thinking about the external impact of a change, and communicating it to other parties. Showing off intermediate demos, and breaking the problem down into a form where intermediate demos are possible. Asking for help from other people.

These are absolutely essential if you want to work on anything that takes more than a month, but the nice side effect is that you then get the ability to work on multiple projects for free. All the problem state is externalized, so if you need to work on something else, you can just drop it, switch contexts, and read your own documents or bug queue to figure out where to pick it up.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#103

Post by Amadou »

Fomite wrote: post #51
dmak wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading the Steve Jobs book, the biggest emphasis was focus on making a great product. He was never in it for the money; He was making $1 a year at one point.

$1 a year and a massive pile of stock. That's a big show of faith in your abilities and your company, but that's hardly "Never in it for the money".

That's a big show of faith in your abilities and your company

It's a tax dodge if the company's share price is at least level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-dollar_salary#Instances_of...

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#104

Post by DerpDerpDerp »

chii wrote: post #96
alaskamiller wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While eating my second dinner plate of something delicious on the campus I looked around and saw how many children and families were around. The company provides, so much, for you, for your family. You wouldn't to ever lose what you have now gotten used to, for yourself, for your family. So now you become a company man. What's good for the company must be good for you. What's good about knowing more people, how they…

tldr; the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Good intentions and creature comforts.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#105

Post by ihsw »

chii wrote: post #96
alaskamiller wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While eating my second dinner plate of something delicious on the campus I looked around and saw how many children and families were around. The company provides, so much, for you, for your family. You wouldn't to ever lose what you have now gotten used to, for yourself, for your family. So now you become a company man. What's good for the company must be good for you. What's good about knowing more people, how they…

tldr; the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

It's simpler than that -- bread and circuses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

Calling it Hell detracts from the pragmatism of bread and circuses -- we are quite happy to compromise logic, ethics, and even our own personal feelings.

Or, more interestingly, artificially creating public approval through diversion, distraction, and the satisfaction of immediate and shallow desires.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#106

Post by nostrademons »

mathattack wrote: post #53
nostrademons wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) 20% time still exists. I used it to write an HTML parser [1] that's had some modest success, and I have coworkers that have 20%ed on robotics, quantum computation, elementary school education, Project Loon, Flu Trends, and a variety of other interesting things. Google Now came out of a 20% project. It is something that you have to take a lot of initiative on to pull off successfully, but the opportunity is still a…

Does 20% realistically come between 80 and 100%, 100 and 120, or 120 and 140%?

Depends on what you're using it for. For Gumbo I found that it was more like 50-120%, i.e. for a good portion of time I was spending something like 50% of my work time plus nights & weekends on my 20% project. I was lucky to have a supportive manager, where after I showed him what I was hoping to do and some feedback from coworkers that believed it was very necessary, let me spend some of my regular time on it.

I have friends that do things like teach Lego Mindstorms to 5th graders though, and that by definition is bounded to 20% of your actual time and won't overfill the workday.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#107

Post by davidgay »

alaskamiller wrote: post #88
timr wrote: post #65

If you ask me, one of Google's biggest strategic successes was their ability to convince an entire generation of engineers that they were something other than a company. The way many (otherwise intelligent) people talk about it, you'd think it was a religion. What you're seeing here is not the shattering of a dream, but of an illusion -- Google hasn't been a scrappy, idealistic startup for many years. It's a fine com…

While eating my second dinner plate of something delicious on the campus I looked around and saw how many children and families were around. The company provides, so much, for you, for your family. You wouldn't to ever lose what you have now gotten used to, for yourself, for your family. So now you become a company man. What's good for the company must be good for you. What's good about knowing more people, how they…

From one of those googlers with children: I have to say I read a bit of the classic "people with children aren't like us" here - likely not intentional, but you may want to reread what you write more carefully for subtext.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#108

Post by chrissnell »

alaskamiller wrote: post #88
timr wrote: post #65

If you ask me, one of Google's biggest strategic successes was their ability to convince an entire generation of engineers that they were something other than a company. The way many (otherwise intelligent) people talk about it, you'd think it was a religion. What you're seeing here is not the shattering of a dream, but of an illusion -- Google hasn't been a scrappy, idealistic startup for many years. It's a fine com…

While eating my second dinner plate of something delicious on the campus I looked around and saw how many children and families were around. The company provides, so much, for you, for your family. You wouldn't to ever lose what you have now gotten used to, for yourself, for your family. So now you become a company man. What's good for the company must be good for you. What's good about knowing more people, how they…

I don't know if you served or if you were just alluding to it but your last point got me thinking:

In the Army, I lived the most barebones kind of lifestyle and did a job that often put my family through hell but was buoyed by the feeling that I was part of the most noble of professions. In this industry, I've provided incredible privilege, comfort, and stability for my family but have always felt that this industry principally serves those who are a part of it.

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#109

Post by pantalaimon »

1qaz2wsx3edc wrote: post #86
timr wrote: post #65

If you ask me, one of Google's biggest strategic successes was their ability to convince an entire generation of engineers that they were something other than a company. The way many (otherwise intelligent) people talk about it, you'd think it was a religion. What you're seeing here is not the shattering of a dream, but of an illusion -- Google hasn't been a scrappy, idealistic startup for many years. It's a fine com…

You mean it isn't? http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/

> Facebook social plugin

HERETICS

Re: Google's Decline Really Bugs Me

#110

Post by dorfsmay »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #38

What's with the sudden outpouring of Google-hate of late? I totally get that Google is changing, and has been doing so for a while. But I don't see that as "evil," and I'm struggling to see why anybody would. Google around maybe five or six years ago was a wasteland of shoddy, broken, unintegrated products, many with half-assed, confusing interfaces. That's been tightened up - many of their products are now substanti…

Going away from standard and becoming incompatible. They are becoming very much like Microsoft that way. VOIP had a chance to become as ubiquitous and convenient as email, but the drop of xmpp fot voice and video took us back 10 years.... Same with replacing rss by g+. Google exists because of standards such as http and html, but they are slowly moving away from all standards in the name of locking users.
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