A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what? • Hacker News Board

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#231

Post by archivator » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 8:22 AM UTC

beloch wrote: post #216

fleitz wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in the poorest postal code in Canada ( http://goo.gl/maps/hzKct here's how bad it gets, this intersection is called Wastings and Pain by many), it's a walk in the park compared to the bad neighbourhoods of many US cities. I've never felt like I was in the 3rd world in Canada, there are parts of the US that make you wonder... We generally take care of our people and don't use the prison system as part of the…

I'm afraid I have to call BS on the ol' "Blame Harper" schtick. The Conservatives, Liberals, and NDP all have exactly the same platforms and would likely be doing exactly the same thing if in power. Canada's political parties have stopped running on the merit of policy and are running purely on the basis of personality. It's really starting to annoy me.

Slightly off topic but I would like to recommend you to read Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman. In it, he posits that the advent of television is the primary driving force behind image-based politics. It's full of astute observations and generally relevant frameworks in which to discuss these types of effects in society. It was also written in 1985 but everything is even easier to observe now.

It's a good book, is what I'm saying.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#232

Post by clarky07 » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 8:26 AM UTC

collyw wrote: post #192

clarky07 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Breaking and entering - very traumatic to someone. insider trading - traumatic to no one. I'm not sure what these "damages" you speak of are. Someone wanted to buy or sell stock, and an insider bought or sold it. Sure, they have more information, but someone always has more or different information. carl icahn and warren buffett have more information than me about a lot of things. yet we trade on the same market ever…

"insider trading -traumatic to no one." When the whole Enron thing went down a few years back, my flatmate at the time lost her job, as an accountant in the UK as a result of that.

Losing a job is traumatic. Enron though, wasn't about insider trading. Yes several of the guys at the top were charged with insider trading, but they were also charged with fraud, money laundering, conspiracy, bank fraud, making false statements to banks and auditors, securities fraud, wire fraud, money laundering, obstruction of justice, among other crimes. Insider trading, not the thing that caused trauma, and in fact I believe most of them were actually acquitted on the insider trading charges. And, fwiw, the guys found guilty of these things did end up with significant prison terms for the trauma they caused.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#233

Post by saraid216 » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 8:34 AM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #169

cmccabe wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three-strikes laws are dumb, but so are you. Take your anti-US agenda somewhere else. I suggest North Korea, China, Venezuela, Iran, Russia, or any of the other countries not allied with us, so you can see how much "better" they are.

My country of birth, New Zealand, has plenty of dark secrets of its own. It's not as simple as being with us or against us though, surely? There are plenty of countries that are worse than the US and there are also a fair few who are better. However there aren't any countries who have a bigger international profile everywhere I have ever been. Its a pity this isn't used to create more good.

> It's not as simple as being with us or against us though, surely?

Here in the US, we strive to bring partisan politics into every discussion.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#234

Post by fallinghawks » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 8:34 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #205

humbledrone wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the cost of keeping him out of it exceeds the cost he inflicts by his presence You do realize that it costs $40,000+ per year to incarcerate someone, right? So to meet your justification for imprisonment, this guy would have to be an excellent criminal. Why not just give him $40,000 per year and let him be free? He'd probably not need to burgle anymore.

> Why not just give him $40,000 per year and let him be free? He'd probably not need to burgle anymore. If we did this, I suspect we'd see a sharp rise in burglaries. As to the figure itself, another commenter noted that the low end of prison costs seemed to be Lousisiana, in which operating a prison cost $13K / year. That would make the per-prisoner cost much, much lower than that.

I may be missing something as I've just skimmed this thread, but 13K has got to be referring to the per-prisoner cost. Unless the prison has no utility consumption, no services, no food, and has one employee who's a part-time janitor.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#235

Post by saraid216 » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 8:36 AM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #61

rfnslyr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anybody else constantly live in a state of guilt? So many lives lost and wars fought just to get us to where we are, and we reap the benefits. I feel so guilty for having a good paying job in the city. I'm not adding any value to the world, none at all. I tinker with a few codes every day and make silly amounts of money, when there's people struggling to put food on the table working 18 hour days. I need to do s…

There is hope. Software is the key to addressing a great deal of injustice in the world. I believe that software programmers who want to make a difference can do so by collaborating on open source projects intended for use by government at every level. Consider: if we can write the software that cities, states, and even the federal government uses to do it's job, then we can also have a material impact on transparenc…

Have you talked to Code for America at all? That's exactly the kind of thing they'd be interested in aiming for, I think.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#236

Post by sdoering » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 8:37 AM UTC

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #228

fleitz wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure North Korea used the exact same reasoning when they didn't sign.

Point being?

Point being (I believe), it is expensive to take a moral position. It costs you money and thoughtful action. You could secure the South Korean border without landmines. It just would cost a lot more money.

You could do a lot of other things (or rather not do them), but it might cost you your political standing.

So point being - playing the moral high card, as the US do around the world, should not follow the line from a Genesis song:

"Do as I say, don't do as I do..."

At least in my humble opinion (the same goes for my Governement, the German one by the way.)

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#237

Post by vijucat » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 8:44 AM UTC

cbaker wrote: post #156

cmccabe wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three-strikes laws are dumb, but so are you. Take your anti-US agenda somewhere else. I suggest North Korea, China, Venezuela, Iran, Russia, or any of the other countries not allied with us, so you can see how much "better" they are.

Here is the US, we're allowed to criticize the government. If you're unhappy with that, maybe you'd like to move to North Korea, China, or any of those other countries where people like you are allowed to shut down critical thinking.

> Here is the US, we're allowed to criticize the government.

Mostly true, I suppose, but I remember this : "TSA loudspeakers threaten travelers with arrest for making jokes" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkWPMeLSk6M

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#238

Post by yummyfajitas » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 8:44 AM UTC

latch wrote: post #125

lostlogin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failure to sign the Ottawa treaty (anti landmine) and the international criminal court agreements, execution of minors (and execution at all), assassination of opponents even if citizens (via drones), torture, war crimes, illegal invasions, use of phosphorus (probably comes under war crimes), continual killing of civilians in non declared wars, massive prison population, secret prisons, outsourcing torture, supportin…

It's easy to distill these issues and hold a self-righteous opinion, but I personally find most too complex to form anything resembling an educated opinion. Take land mines. I've heard that they play a critical role in South Korea's defense, which was a major reason Clinton didn't sign. Military experts talk about how it's an effective tool that, when used responsibly, can benefit civilians more than harm them. They…

Further, there is a big difference between long term persistent land mines out of a plane into a civilian area (what the treaty is meant to stop), and keeping a careful inventory of (mostly wire controlled) mines in a controlled area just south of the border.

The former will kill tons of non-soldiers and persist long after the war is over. The latter will kill NK soldiers moving south and can be easily collected in the event they are no longer necessary.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#239

Post by mattsfrey » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 8:45 AM UTC

mililani wrote: post #158

If you guys think this is a travesty, look up felony murder. I think it's unconstitutional, and people have been sentenced to life because of it.

In general this only applies to dangerous or violent felonies. In Colorado for instance, the applicable felonies are:

arson, robbery, burglary, kidnapping, sexual assault, or a class 3 felony sexual assault on a child

If somebody or a group of people are participating in these activities and somebody ends up dying, they should certainly be held liable for murder due to the reckless and malicious nature of the crimes being committed.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#240

Post by erichocean » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 8:49 AM UTC

skyraider wrote: post #106

zaroth wrote: post #93

If the judge simply orders a sentence below the minimum, what happens? While the Government can appeal the sentence, then it comes to the next judge up the line to stand up for justice. For example, California's 3-strike law counts non-violent felonies, which sweeps up a lot of criminals into 25 year sentences that they don't deserve. "The California law originally gave judges no discretion in setting prison terms fo…

A few points: - Many former judges are prosecutors. Prosecutors are trained to get the maximum 'sustainable' sentence. This means looking at what the law says and enforcing it. Fault: legislature. - If the law says that sentences should or must be X long, sentences are going to be around X long. Outside of the 3 strikes system and the California Supreme Court's ruling, how is this the judiciary's fault? There is a se…

How much, really, does sentence length have to do with re-election?

If you mean, with the voters? Almost nothing.

It you mean, in the ability to get votes in the next election through adequate funding? It means a lot.

The prison union (among others) is a heavy, heavy funder of politicians here in CA (and I assume other places). Obviously they benefit from having more customers^Hprisoners; hence, politicians are willing to vote for legislation in their favor, to keep the money flowing for the next election.

This should surprise no one.