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Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

wikileaks.org

131–140 of 201 posts

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not quite so simple as considering all leaks of government information heroic. For instance, would it have been heroic to leak news that U.S. code breakers had cracked enemy codes in WW2?

Like, for instance, that the Japanese diplomatic codes had been broken and that the administration had prior knowledge of an imminent attack on Pearl Harbor, yet chose to do nothing, because the public response would finally allow the U.S. to enter the war? Absolutely, it would have been heroic. It might have led to real justice instead of ruinous warmongering.

Heroic how exactly? If the US had not entered the war when it did, the whole of Europe, and perhaps the rest of the world, would have probably ended up under Nazi control.

There are many instances of Allied forces breaking codes but not acting on them, because to do so would have signalled to the enemy that their codes had been broken and the advantage would be lost. This comes back to my post further down, most individuals simply don't know the bigger picture!

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#132
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not quite so simple as considering all leaks of government information heroic. For instance, would it have been heroic to leak news that U.S. code breakers had cracked enemy codes in WW2?

yes it is simple. You are implying that there was a good vs evil paradigm with WWII which is completely a USA fallacy. Both sides were being funded by the central banking cartel. Do you actually think there would be any difference if you were living under Nazi control or not? Look at all the astroturfing of the phrase "6 million Jews" in WWI before Hitler even came in to power.

Whilst I do partly agree with your comment from a very existentialist viewpoint[1]. This has to be the worst comment I've seen on HN.

[1] Yes, there would be a big difference to living under Nazi control or not. Whether we would know, or care, is another matter. Homosexuality and Judaism would surely be non-existent, but would that bother us if everything around us is 'Nazi' and the very idea of Judaism or Homosexuality didn't exist? Much like most peoples attitudes towards witchcraft. We are all a product of our society.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#133
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that possible, when there were rumors they intend to pass it by the end of the year?

Its been 'fast tracked' ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_track_(trade) ).

Why would Congress pass legislation saying that it's not allowed to amend trade agreements? Why don't they just not amend trade agreements?

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#134
post #105
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret. That isn't the goal, not for privacy advocates nor for Wikileaks or Julian Assange, who said: "The goal is justice, the method is transparency. It's important not to confuse the goal and the method." Advocates of individual privacy rely on the government, as a service provider, to keep secrets in order to protect the rights of individuals.

That may have been Assange (and WikiLeaks) goal when it was founded. It's hard to claim that's currently their goal, given that their push for "transparency" is limited to the USA (and occasionally the UK) ever since their site switchover back 5-6 years ago.

You're free to send them some North Korean secrets to publish.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#135
The title is slightly misleading. They've only released the IP chapter - presumably because they figure the content will annoy hacktivists. I personally want to know about the whole thing, since agricultural tariffs, labor conditions, visa rules and the like seem to me at least as important as IP matters.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#136
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the TPP is not public (yet?), and parties involved are not allowed to discuss it for 4 years. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/11/house-pushing-back-on...

How is that possible, when there were rumors they intend to pass it by the end of the year?

Has no one been paying attention? This has been fairly widely reported in the press I follow. Of course, in the "mainstream" press, nada on this point.

This is a model that the Administration (Obama, and Bush before him) have been following for several recent trade agreements. They are being negotiated in a very selective and biased secrecy.

In the U.S.:

- Favored lobbyists have fairly unfettered access. From one account, I understand that they can sign on to a site from their own computer and view the whole shebang -- I don't have this specifically confirmed, but the thorough access has been repeatedly confirmed. They attend and undoubtedly influence the negotiations; in fact, there have been strong hints that they are directly writing major portions of these agreements.

- Your own Congressman -- Senator or Representative -- can only access the agreement by appointment to go to a specific, physical room in D.C. where they can view it. They can't bring their staff for consultation and research. They can't take the draft agreement or portions thereof away with them.

- The public -- as opposed to favored, moneyed private interests within said public -- has no access to the draft agreement nor any substantive part of the negotiations. In fact, at at least one point, public access was specifically qualified as a "national security risk". For a trade agreement that will, once passed, then be public and under which we must all live.

Regarding that last point: Substantial arguments have been made that these agreements are being used to essentially legislate while making an end run around the legislative process. They contain language stating that individual countries' laws must be "harmonized" to the terms of the agreement. In effect, you have this trade agreement dictating the country's law.

And in the U.S., our legislators have repeated agreed to "fast track" the approval. Essentially handing over to the Executive, in the form of the Administration and its appointed trade negotiators, the power to enact the trade agreement and thereby the "harmonizing" language (i.e. commitment to change law, i.e. "create" law). And this additionally ahead of the drafting, agreement to and codification of the specific terms and language that will be enacted.

In essence, the Legislative branch has (illegally, many argue) abrogated its duty and responsibility to draft, negotiate, and enact law, to the Executive.

Amazing, how... "compliant" they suddenly get, when there's real money involved for them. And how conveniently they sweep all this up, including the avoidance of the need to specifically, individually go "on the record" e.g. with a vote, under this abused rubric of a "trade agreement".

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its been 'fast tracked' ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_track_(trade) ).

Why would Congress pass legislation saying that it's not allowed to amend trade agreements? Why don't they just not amend trade agreements?

its hard for me to think of an answer to this question that doesn't somehow devolve into an area of 'conspiracy'-type BS.

I really do not know.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#138
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that possible, when there were rumors they intend to pass it by the end of the year?

Has no one been paying attention? This has been fairly widely reported in the press I follow. Of course, in the "mainstream" press, nada on this point. This is a model that the Administration (Obama, and Bush before him) have been following for several recent trade agreements. They are being negotiated in a very selective and biased secrecy. In the U.S.: - Favored lobbyists have fairly unfettered access. From one acc…

Not only do the lobbyists and partners get to influence the negotiations, they are under a 4 year gag order from discussing it.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#139
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not quite so simple as considering all leaks of government information heroic. For instance, would it have been heroic to leak news that U.S. code breakers had cracked enemy codes in WW2?

yes it is simple. You are implying that there was a good vs evil paradigm with WWII which is completely a USA fallacy. Both sides were being funded by the central banking cartel. Do you actually think there would be any difference if you were living under Nazi control or not? Look at all the astroturfing of the phrase "6 million Jews" in WWI before Hitler even came in to power.

Kind sir, we appear to have run out of Nazi extermination camps. However, I invite you to book a one-way trip to North Korea. I hear their concentration camps are wonderful this time of the year.
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