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It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

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41–50 of 164 posts

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#41
post #8

The MSG allergy is a myth, plain and simple. There have been plenty of scientific research studies done on the substance, and they found absolutely nothing. I don't know why this myth has persisted so long in popular culture. I compare it to people who rave about homeopathy. Any (perceived) effect is either anecdotal or placebo in nature. What most people don't know, is that MSG occurs naturally in many foods. Beef,…

It's a lot like the stigma against aspartame. It found its way into popular culture and has become firmly entrenched despite all evidence from decades of intense scientific scrutiny to the contrary.

My gut feeling is that we're going to be in a similar place in 10-20 years with HFCS. The body of research there is still relatively young, however.

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#42
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cubans consume a ton of MSG (sazón) and live notoriously long lives despite very poor living conditions. Your last sentence is very troubling: You feel the negative effects when eating certain foods that you 'suspect' contain MSG. To me, that really sounds like you may psyche yourself out. ie. that you worry about MSG so much that it starts to cause you stress about it, and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy/placebo eff…

The Goya brands definitely do as a flavor additive, but there are other brands of Sazon that don't include any glutamate. Then again, Goya has always been the cheap/crap brand of Spanish food.

Badia adds it as well. I'm not just referring to here in the US though. I have a copy of Nitza Villapol's La Cocina Criolla, and almost every recipe calls for MSG.

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#43
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, I think, the same reason why we should be sceptical of genetically modified foods - not because the process is unnatural, or is inherently damaging - but for a more banal reason, because it is similar to eating foods with a lot of additives. In both cases you fundamentally lose control over the building blocks of your diet. If you can only choose between different highly processed foods, that means you need…

The only way your body would know or care if it was consuming a genetically modified food was if that modification produced something toxic (poisonous). Barring than that, to your body, it's all proteins, carbohydrates, fats, etc... If you are concerned about genetically modified foods, you should probably also be concerned with domesticated foods, since those have been selected by their farmers for many generations…

> you should probably also be concerned with domesticated foods, since those have been selected by their farmers for many generations to produce specific things - bigger fruits, better tasting meats

This is sort of true, but also not at all. Natural selection deals with incremental changes over the course of decades, or generations. The likelihood that, for instance, Omega 3 production will spontaneously arise in a tomato, is so small as to be negligible. GM represents a step-change in capability, closer to the possibilities of the use of industrial food additives, than it is to traditional breeding. Except, as I say, the additives are now an integral part of the ingredients.

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#44
post #7

This article is both accurate and highly misleading. The author is correct that there is very little reliable evidence that links glutamic acid and/or glutamate to health problems. The backlash against MSG as a result of the "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" craze, was not rooted in scientific inquiry. However, MSG is not just a source for glutamate like seaweed and tomatoes are. MSG is the sodium salt of glutamic acid a…

It's not the sodium, it's the glutamate (the "G" in MSG).

Glutamate is an excitotoxin, and it's an additive in almost all processed foods, in various forms with many different names (http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html).

Excitotoxicity is the "pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged and killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate and similar substances" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity).

As the article says, when glutamate is consumed naturally, it is intertwined with fiber and other chemicals that regulate its uptake; however, glutamate additives are not and thus flood your body with glutamate, which can overload your blood-brain barrier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood%E2%80%93brain_barrier) and disrupt the delicate balance.

This is akin to Dr. Lustig's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lustig) findings on sugar (fructose): Eating whole fruits is fine because you're consuming fiber with the fructose (nature provides the antidote), but fruit juice is all fructose and no fiber so your body is flooded with fructose, which is toxic (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.htm...).

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#45
I use MSG in cooking and it's a great way to lower salt while dramatically increasing flavor. It doesn't make bad food magically good, but it makes good food great. Especially good in soups and stews. I bought a bulk container in the ethnic food aisle of a grocery and it has lasted a couple of years and is now just about gone. It's amazing how much a little pinch goes.

Amazon has a 1LB bag available for $6.50 and is Prime eligible: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001OCP02Q/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#46
post #8

The MSG allergy is a myth, plain and simple. There have been plenty of scientific research studies done on the substance, and they found absolutely nothing. I don't know why this myth has persisted so long in popular culture. I compare it to people who rave about homeopathy. Any (perceived) effect is either anecdotal or placebo in nature. What most people don't know, is that MSG occurs naturally in many foods. Beef,…

Uh. I actually have an MSG sensitivity which took me forever to figure out what it was. For decades I'd occasionally be eating in a restaurant and my lips, tongue and/or back of my throat would go numb. It wasn't until I bought MSG and started putting it on pretty much everything in larger doses that I realized it was the culprit.

I can reproduce it pretty easily by simply putting nothing but MSG on my tongue. It takes a good bit to do it however and seems to cause me no other problems so I tend not to worry about it, but it is clearly some kind of sensitivity or allergy which is easily reproducible and not the slightest bit vague (lips going numb is a pretty easily identifiable sensation). Claiming it is all completely made up seems a bit premature.

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#47
post #16

I really do not like these articles that say "science says not to worry, you must be a very stupid and uneducated person to be worried about this." Any honest scientist will tell you that science does not know exactly how the human body processes food and there is no model which will exactly predict the effects of the human body ingesting a certain food. Saying that the experimental results are mixed does not make me…

> I really do not like these articles that say "science says not to worry, you must be a very stupid and uneducated person to be worried about this." Any honest scientist will tell you that science does not know exactly how the human body processes food and there is no model which will exactly predict the effects of the human body ingesting a certain food.

It's true that we have a very limited understanding of the human body.

But this is the whole point. Unless there's some science to back something (or you have some personal experiences) then it's irrational to change your behaviour. [Note that I'm certainly not discounting personal experience here. Because the body is complicated, I think that's worth more than science. But you've got to be careful about your biases.]

The example of trans fats is an interesting one. AFAIK, the science (early 90s?) predated anyone seriously changing behaviour or policy. Although people suggested a connection earlier, it would not have been reasonable to start altering the entire food industry around some unsubstantiated claims. There are random connections suggested all the time. Unfortunately, they are only insightful in retrospect and no one remembers the ones that didn't turn out to be true.

> So I am very very suspicious of any food additives. The only rational decision for a human being is to eat the type of foods humans have eaten for tens of thousands of years before and for which our bodies have evolved.

While it's sane to be suspicious of food additives, I don't think it's rational to go back ten of thousands of years. Modern humans live much longer and are healthier than humans ten thousand years ago. There are plenty of modern additives about which there is little to no debate: * Iodine added to salt. * Vitamins A and D added to milk in Northern countries (incl. USA and Canada). * Fluoride added to tap water. I'm sure there are many other additives that are generally accepted as good, but I'm not aware of. And aside from additives, I certainly wouldn't want my food to stop being pasteurized...

> MSG is especially worrying because there are some studies that show negative effects of MSG and the fact that other studies show no effects does not quite negate these.

IIRC, the studies that showed negative effects were done by injecting MSG directly into rats. I believe the consensus is that the ingestion of glutamate is much different than direct injection. You consume glutamate every day in your food (I'm sure there are plenty of things you eat which would do very bad things if injected directly into your blood). I don't think anyone has the view that studies are negated because they are contradicted by others, but they are frequently negated due to poor protocols or new information.

I actually don't find MSG very worrying because it seems to be a cultural phenomenon, more than a scientific one. (There are many: third-hand smoking, resveratrol, anti-oxidants, etc. Not to say there's no science there, just that the cultural view is only tangentially related to the science. It's like our fan death.)

I went through my own little discovery: A few years ago, I was shocked to discover that a girl I was dating frequently cooked with an MSG sauce (she was from Mexico). Stunned, I researched the whole MSG thing. Turns out it's quite popular all over the world, except in english-speaking countries. The popular demonization stemmed from a few poorly-done studies that very quickly become part of the zeitgeist (it's suggested that this was partly due to racism/xenophobia since it was seen as an asian thing). And despite its widespread use for decades, there's no real evidence that suggests what people fear about it. And because of the fear, it's actually one of the most-tested of all food ingredients and yet it remains legal to sell and use as an additive everywhere.

> Furthermore, I myself feel negative effects when eating certain foods that I suspect of containing MSG.

One last quick point -- I don't think you should treat your own experience as the addendum. As you suggested, the human body is a complex system so I think the best thing that you can do is listen to your instincts. [Of course, you should also try to keep in mind the psychology at play. You feel bad, so you suspect the food has MSG; or you suspect the food has MSG, so you feel bad.]

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#48
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" MSG is especially worrying because there are some studies that show negative effects of MSG " Have you read the actual studies? There are no "mixed" studies, they're all conclusive. One of the biggest studies done was a decade long and found absolutely nothing . Sources: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2222.2009.... http://www.livestrong.com/article/408512-neurological-effect... http://www.highbea…

Did you read the article this discussion is attached to? It said in part: "Initially, researchers had success proving both the short-term and long-term dangers of MSG: mice injected with the additive showed signs of brain lesions, and humans fed 3 grams of MSG per 200 ml of soup presented symptoms congruent with “Chinese Restaurant Syndrome.” " If you believe the original article is wrong, then you should perhaps mak…

It's like your eyes refused to show your brain the words that you didn't want to read.

"Subsequent studies, however, provided mixed results: some confirmed findings of brain lesions in animals or symptoms in humans, but other studies were unable to replicate the results. Double-blind studies often showed little correlation between MSG and adverse symptoms. Parties on both sides of the debate slung accusations at the other, with the anti-MSG researchers claiming that studies were being funded by MSG producers, and pro-MSG researchers accusing the other side of fear-mongering.

From the FDA to the United Nations to various governments (Australia, Britain and Japan) the public bodies that have investigated MSG have deemed it a safe food additive. The FDA states on their website:

FDA considers the addition of MSG to foods to be “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS). Although many people identify themselves as sensitive to MSG, in studies with such individuals given MSG or a placebo, scientists have not been able to consistently trigger reactions.

Scientific interest in its deleterious effects seems to be waning: one of the last studies to gain public attention was published in 2011. The authors of that study claimed to have found a link between MSG and obesity, though those results have been questioned. While the general scientific consensus seems to be that only in large doses and on an empty stomach can MSG temporarily affect a small subset of the population, MSG’s reputation is still maligned in the public eye."

That last sentence is important.

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#49
post #44
post #7

This article is both accurate and highly misleading. The author is correct that there is very little reliable evidence that links glutamic acid and/or glutamate to health problems. The backlash against MSG as a result of the "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" craze, was not rooted in scientific inquiry. However, MSG is not just a source for glutamate like seaweed and tomatoes are. MSG is the sodium salt of glutamic acid a…

It's not the sodium, it's the glutamate (the "G" in MSG). Glutamate is an excitotoxin, and it's an additive in almost all processed foods, in various forms with many different names ( http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html ). Excitotoxicity is the "pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged and killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate and similar substances" ( https…

But nobody eats MSG by itself like fruit juice, won't mixing it to food that contains fiber and 'other chemicals' have the same effect?

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#50
post #7

This article is both accurate and highly misleading. The author is correct that there is very little reliable evidence that links glutamic acid and/or glutamate to health problems. The backlash against MSG as a result of the "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" craze, was not rooted in scientific inquiry. However, MSG is not just a source for glutamate like seaweed and tomatoes are. MSG is the sodium salt of glutamic acid a…

"Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" is real though. Or rather I personally can't eat most things at chinese restaurants and this article was the first time I heard that this is actually a named thing, i.e. this is the first time I hear of CRS. Though I think it's more to do with the fat they use to fry rice in -- there is one place around here which serves chinese-style stir-fried noodles, but eating there reliably does no…

Some people are allergic to MSG (or maybe just glutamate). I'm sure it is something an allergist could test you for.
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