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It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

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Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#291

Post by mempko »

spenvo wrote: post #239

The NSA has reveled in the joy of invading our privacy, has undermined our ability to hold a secret (by intentionally weakening/undermining cryptography), paid its employees outrageous salaries, and is a caricature of George Orwell's "Big Brother"[1] - surpassing even the Stasi of Soviet Russia in its pervasiveness. The Patriot Act (among others) needs to be repealed. Period. But that will never happen, because burea…

I find it most ironic that when the Internet was owned by the public (government) it was decentralized and more free. When it was given to private business in the mid 90s it became what it is today.

You may want to consider the economics of why the Internet has turned out the way it is. Why do these companies feel they need to collect so much personal information that it can be abused?

I think the answer is clear. There is no money to be made from a decentralized and free Internet by Silicon Valley...

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#292

Post by mattlutze »

X4 wrote: post #266
mattlutze wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am for communities, but the only point of communities is to make the individuals that compose them happy. If a community is thriving by some metric but the individuals that compose them are unhappy, the community is pointless of even counter-productive. I think there has been a very pernicious, detrimental focus in recent history on ensuring "happiness." Life is not about being happy. Communities do not exist to…

I would agree, but the wealth gap exists here too and it's growing bigger. There are only a handful people who have earn a big percentage of what's earned in total in the country. Sorry, but had to make this clear. I am from Europe. Countries with most Billionaires: 1) USA – 409 2) China – 317 3) Russia – 88 4) Germany – 61 5) England – 56 6) India – 53 7) Switzerland – 41 8) Brazil – 33 9) Taiwan – 32 10) France – 3…

Well, the gap isn't growing in the same way in every European country. I'm guessing you're from Germany?

Billionaires certainly exist in every country. The count of billionaires in a particular country, however, does not actually talk to the wealth gap in a country. I'm simply stating that it is suppressed by wealth redistribution, and is not reliably a function of the size of a government, nor am I sure how one would go about meaningfully measuring the size of a government.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#293

Post by king_jester »

Loughla wrote: post #289
X4 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orly, seriously? Find me the study that proves that for a group that is larger than a few million! Please just prove this point. It is sooo naive to just assume, "hey I saw 5 chick sand a hen, the hen ruled them, I think hundreds of millions of americans must be ruled by one hen too". Clever, clever... I am writing a scientific paper and just believe me (as you seem to believe easily, without proof) that Hierarchy is…

That statement said nothing about one person, but a ruling class. Look at every primate species. They all have a hierarchy of some fashion. Do you honestly believe that our ability to be really successful at breeding and exploiting the resources around us really make us exempt from natural selection? Small group, large group, we're all monkeys.

Social hierarchies in apes and monkeys run a huge gamut of behaviors and structures. That a hierarchy exists doesn't say anything about social structure and how that hierarchy operates.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#294

Post by angersock »

res0nat0r wrote: post #224
angersock wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other side is coming from fear. "Just want to stress from a different perspective, my family grew up poor in a 3rd world country, and they laugh at American's obsession with human rights and they just say "that's what people do if they never needed to worry about putting food on their table"." And you know why it's a 3rd world country? Because they lived how they had to and not how they ought to. Progress is not…

Says the guy living in a $2k a month studio in San Francisco whilst working from his $3k MacBook Pro at Starbucks? So your answer to everyone living in fear, in let's say Juarez, Mexico is that they need to be out in the streets protesting against the psychotic drug cartels, because that's how they "ought to" live, since you know third world country and all?

I live in an old busted rented house in an old busted neighborhood in an old busted giant city, thank you very much, and type on an old busted workstation salvaged from a university. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

And yeah, maybe that's what needs to happen. Tyrants have never been disposed of by hiding indoors and hoping they'll go away.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#295

Post by tedunangst »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #278
tedunangst wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge percentage? Really?

6% of USA adults are redditors. That's larger than some ethnic minorities.

If 6% is a huge percentage, I literally do not have the words to describe what kind of percentage 94% must be.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#296

Post by sanderjd »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #286
TelmoMenezes wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two points: - The evidence seems to be that the bigger the government, the wider the gap between the rich and the poor. This might sound counter-intuitive, but that's the date we have. The rest is pure speculation. It could be that there is some hidden variable that makes the rich/poor gap and government grow at the same time, but it's not enough to just repeat some dogma; - I am for communities, but the only point o…

> - The evidence seems to be that the bigger the government, the wider the gap between the rich and the poor. This might sound counter-intuitive, but that's the date we have. It sounds counterintuitive because it's absolutely unabashedly false. Nordic countries, whose governments are bigger than any, have greater equality than 3rd world African countries, where government is non existent. This is just more libercrazi…

You make a good point, but just so you know, when I see political put-down portmanteaus (politdownteaus?) like "libercrazian", "libtard", "randroid", etc., it immediately sets off my alarm bells for people who are operating on an us-vs-them instead of a reasoned-thinking basis. I doubt I'm the only one for whom a good argument seems weakened by this sort of silliness.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#297

Post by moocowduckquack »

tptacek wrote: post #34
duairc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone on HN acts like there's no possible reason for people to support these types of activities. And they're right. You don't need to play devil's advocate. The devil has enough advocates.

EXTERMINATE ALL RATIONAL THOUGHT. Questions are not allowed. Consideration is not allowed. Context is not allowed. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

Going a bit Bill Lee there.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#298

Post by TelmoMenezes »

mattlutze wrote: post #249
TelmoMenezes wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two points: - The evidence seems to be that the bigger the government, the wider the gap between the rich and the poor. This might sound counter-intuitive, but that's the date we have. The rest is pure speculation. It could be that there is some hidden variable that makes the rich/poor gap and government grow at the same time, but it's not enough to just repeat some dogma; - I am for communities, but the only point o…

> I am for communities, but the only point of communities is to make the individuals that compose them happy. If a community is thriving by some metric but the individuals that compose them are unhappy, the community is pointless of even counter-productive. I think there has been a very pernicious, detrimental focus in recent history on ensuring "happiness." Life is not about being happy. Communities do not exist to…

> I think there has been a very pernicious, detrimental focus in recent history on ensuring "happiness." Life is not about being happy. Communities do not exist to make people happy.

I am familiar with the argument and you are free to think that, of course. My view is that happiness is our ultimate internal gauge. Any alternative to wanting to be happy is typically some form of religion (including some political ideologies). I am willing to sacrifice for the people I love or even for strangers, but that's because it makes me happy. Most people will arrive at the same conclusion if they're honest with themselves.

> Define "bigger". Germany, France, Sweden, Denmark, all have governments that are significantly more activist in the daily lives of their citizens, and the wealth gap does not exist in those countries like it does the US.

I define "bigger" as government spending per capita. Take this graph:

http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=7373

Then compare it with this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_Unite...

Give the NSA disclosures, the size and activity of the US military and the fact that the USA has the largest percentage of its citizens arrested of all countries in the world -- the majority for victimless crimes, it's maybe hard to argue that the other countries you mention have bigger or more intrusive governments.

I live in Germany and the only intrusion in my life is that I don't have to pay for health care.

Notice that I'm not anti-american by any means. I actually admire America and many of its achievements, and this is why its current direction depresses me.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#299

Post by AlisdairSH »

sharkweek wrote: post #36
mikeyouse wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone on HN acts like there's no possible reason for people to support these types of activities, but there could be very legitimate reasons these engineers choose to do what they do. It could just be a challenge for them. Where else can you not only get away with, but be rewarded with a good salary and a pension for hacking into the most secure systems on earth? It must be thrilling to be 'Competing' against the…

Don't get be wrong, I don't think for a second that it wouldn't be a ridiculously exciting job -- I mean even the thought about having a government security clearance is a thrilling thought (even though I'm sure it's less cinematic than I might hope) -- I also completely buy the competition angle -- especially considering I'm not going to pretend that Google is the "good guy" here, fighting perilously for our freedom…

"...the thought about having a government security clearance is a thrilling thought"

Meh. Nothing cinematic about it at all. You fill out reams of paperwork (address and neighbors back 10 years), get interviewed by a tired bureaucrat, and all your friends, family, and neighbors get grilled by some other tired bureaucrats.

Then, if you're lucky, they grant you an interim clearance so you can start work while they do whatever other research they need to do (polygraph, etc).

And if you're unlucky, they don't grant the interim and you're left in limbo for months on end. And you don't have any say in the matter - if the interim is denied, there is no recourse. And if they take too long, your employer may just decide waiting around isn't worth the time and send you packing before the process completes. And you never find out what red flag they thought they saw.

All in, it's a total pain in the ass.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#300

Post by penguindev »

steveklabnik wrote: post #85
penguindev wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OWS was successful at something? What would that be...

There are a number of things OWS was successful at: 1. re-igniting a national conversation about the nature of wealth and who has it and for what reasons. 2. Giving a large number of people who were isolated in their individual homes a space to come build some kind of community. 3. Several sub-organizations, such as Occupy Sandy and Strike Debt, have been incredibly successful in their niche. 4. A whole new generatio…

That sounds like a bureaucrats definition of success. "It's not about accomplishing real work, it's about the process, getting involved in the process, etc. etc." Seeing how wall st. is at all time highs using printed money, and the largest mega banks are still mega, it's a bit optimistic to call OWS a success.

Don't get me wrong, I think it was a great effort... and I really like the 1%/99% coining... but perhaps it's time to look at reality.

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