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Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

arstechnica.com

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Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#401

Post by gibwell »

keypusher wrote: post #309
bowlofpetunias wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be true, but let's not get fooled into thinking that because "they" are the enemy, Google must be our friend. Google is playing a very dubious game here, and it has nothing to do with being on "our" side of the patent issue. They've tried to buy the same patents, refused to participate in a joint effort to safeguard those patents for all, and then knowingly violated those patents. All through this, they've b…

Google wanted these patents so that they would not be used aggressively against them. Google has no history of using patents against other companies aggressively. I'm on the side of the company that isn't using software patents to sue other companies, which in this case is Google. This isn't nearly as complicated as you are making it out to be.

False. Google uses parents aggressively through its wholly owned subsidiary, Motorola.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#402

Post by gibwell »

mtgx wrote: post #301
shin_lao wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is how things will turn out. People will like Google less and less because you can't do anything without them and there is no alternative, and what will happen to Google is exactly what happened to Microsoft: antitrust lawsuits, patents lawsuits, etc. This is not because Google is "evil" or anything, just because they are #1 and therefore are target for more and more people. In the end, this is all…

Apple and Microsoft and joining to sue Google with FRAND patents, that they bought from other companies, and people will like Google less because of it? Is that how the patent system is supposed to work, or are Apple and Microsoft abusing it to the extreme?

These aren't frand patents. And even if they are found to be, they are still entitled to a /reasonable/ license fee.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#403

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

Datsundere wrote: post #366
cs702 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm unhappy with Apple and Microsoft too, but the real enemy is a broken patent system that creates the perverse incentives that motivate companies to launch lawsuits like this one, to the detriment of society. Regardless of who wins, we have already lost, because we have a patent system that discourages innovation and competition in software! Maybe the prospect of patent Armageddon will finally force lawmakers to ad…

Don't blame the patent system. While it is true that patent system should be reformed/eliminated, those companies chose to take advantage of it. Just because you can steal something when nobody is looking doesn't mean it's justified to be stolen.

> They chose to take advantage of it.

What would they do, just let Google acquire even more mobile-related patents? You think Google would never sue them? Let's not be naive, the only reason Google is a good citizen with patents today is because a retaliation would make a dent on them, and they know it.

The parent is right, the problem is the patent system, which gives a disproportional power to the holder and creates these power dynamics, "eat or be eaten". There's no space for ethics or fairness there.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#404

Post by jmodp »

air wrote: post #251
bowlofpetunias wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be true, but let's not get fooled into thinking that because "they" are the enemy, Google must be our friend. Google is playing a very dubious game here, and it has nothing to do with being on "our" side of the patent issue. They've tried to buy the same patents, refused to participate in a joint effort to safeguard those patents for all, and then knowingly violated those patents. All through this, they've b…

I think separating good guys and bad guys is pretty simple, if one is against (at least software) patents: Using patents aggressively makes you a bad guy. Google has not done this, Microsoft and Apple have.

When Jobs claimed that Android was a stolen product and that he was willing to go nuclear on it, this is what he meant. And his claims have some merit. It is hard to blame Apple for using legal weapons to go after Google no matter how distasteful the use of such weapons might be.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#406

Post by waqf »

fpgeek wrote: post #280
waqf wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"even" beyond the grave? They're onto the desperate measures now because without Steve they can't hit their revenue targets through actually making better products.

The groundwork for these measures was laid a long, long time ago. Many of the patents Apple has used against Android OEMs have gone back to the mid-90s - when Apple v Microsoft was recent history and their inability to get "patent-like protection" from UI copyrights was fresh in Apple's mind.

Yes, they have been prepared for this a long time. They could have launched this strategy any time they wanted.

And I'm saying that the reason they're doing it now is because they're out of ideas.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#407

Post by gibwell »

Joister wrote: post #215
Apocryphon wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But with Android, the choice is between your OEM overlords and the Google anti-fragmentation efforts overlord. Yes; you can flash your own ROM and switch to CyanogenMod or Replicant. That is the freedom you are guaranteed in Android. But how many people actually take advantage of it?

>But how many people actually take advantage of it? Who gives a shit. The fact that the option exists means the "android locks you into google" argument is nonsense.

It means nothing of the sort. Regular consumers are absolutely locked into google by this, and as a consequence, so are developers.

The fact that a few hobbyists can back their phones does nothing to change this.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#408

Post by bad_user »

bzbarsky wrote: post #393
bad_user wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People bitch and moan about Gmail serving ads and yet people bitched and moaned when Google Apps dropped the free version, even though with paid accounts you don't get ads anymore and the pricing of Google Apps is insanely good compared to the alternatives. Android, Chrome, Chrome OS are open-source. Amazon already forked Android. Android is also the only popular mobile operating-system that allows installation of so…

Chrome is not in fact open-source. Chromium is open-source, but lacks various functionality Chrome has (e.g. the PDF reader, and soon I expect playback of Netflix videos, since I doubt Google will be open-sourcing their CDM). Chromium is also supporting Flash via NPAPI, not Pepper, which Google is planning to kill off. ChromeOS has similar issues with Netflix, at the very least: the open-source parts can't do it.

Well, that's true. But then when companies like Mozilla try to fight proprietary stuff like H.264 or DRM (because duh, these are incompatible with open-source), people start bitching about it. And that's why we can't have nice things, because some people suck.

You forgot about the Google Talk plugin, which was something that was upsetting me personally, but hopefully they'll fulfil their promise of moving to Web RTC.

Note - I'm actually a Firefox user, because when Mozilla wants to improve the state of PDF rendering, they do it in such a way that everybody benefits, i.e. https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#409

Post by waqf »

72deluxe wrote: post #281
waqf wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen the screen on the Chromebook Pixel?

It is good, but have you seen the lack of storage? I am sure I have USB keys with larger storage, and I have more MP3s than will fit on its storage. It is abysmal.

They're pretty upfront about intending you to use Google Drive for your storage. So you should focus your critique on explaining why Drive is inadequate.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#410

Post by jaegerpicker »

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

It's disgusting to me. I'm a bit of an Apple fan boy and i have a ton invested in the iOS/Mac ecosystem but this really pushes me further away. I'm really close to switching to Android and linux because of issues like this. Sure there are worse things a company can do but I have a real issue supporting a company that behaves in this manner.
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