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Freenode has blocked the Mibbit client permanently.

blog.mibbit.com

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Re: Freenode has blocked the Mibbit client permanently.

#31

Post by ankhmoop »

davidw wrote: post #29
ankhmoop wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say shouldn't , but I would say that a slightly higher barrier to entry serves as a good first-pass filter for technically-oriented communities.

That's what I thought when mirc came out;-) People who didn't know how to use ircII were generally not as cool. You need something better, though. After all, it should be noted that discussion here is via a web based interface, and yet the conversation isn't that bad.

You need something better, though. After all, it should be noted that discussion here is via a web based interface, and yet the conversation isn't that bad.

I agree, but IRC is different and arguably antiquated technology. It doesn't require registration, operates in real-time, has no concept of reputation or community moderation. It's difficult to manage, and services that accidentally facilitate abuse make it more so.

Re: Freenode has blocked the Mibbit client permanently.

#33

Post by ankhmoop »

davidw wrote: post #17
ankhmoop wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has been placed in the position of semi-regularly banning mibbit from freenode OSS project channels due to abusive users, I can't see how this is a bad thing. The quality of user was exceptionally low, and "easy webchat" simply doesn't seem like a strong value proposition for the technical users that frequent the network.

> "easy webchat" simply doesn't seem like a strong value proposition for the technical users that frequent the network. Which is why they saw to it to create their own web chat...

Doesn't serve as counter argument for web chat providing strong value proposition, just that Freenode leveraged existing open source software to provide an alternative solution that they could directly manage.

http://blog.freenode.net/2009/06/new-freenode-webchat-and-wh...

Re: Freenode has blocked the Mibbit client permanently.

#34

Post by froo »

Tichy wrote: post #30
froo wrote: post #20

I know the "official" reason, but I'm curious if there's any correlation between the blocking of mibbit and axod's post about how much revenue mibbit was making here ( http://axod.blogspot.com/2009/06/revenue-browser.html ) - the timing is awfully suspicious. I mean, a day after the post they "magically" have their own web client up that they would rather you use. I had a look at the qwebirc client they implemented,…

What is the official reason?

People abusing mibbit webchat to cause strife

http://blog.freenode.net/2009/06/new-freenode-webchat-and-wh...

Honestly, freenode is loaded up with tech savvy users. This will solve nothing. If users want to cause strife on channels, the tool they use is inconsequential. Below are two scenario's off the top of my head.

Scenario #1 - people will be using proxies and using freenode's webchat client = banning mibbit was pointless

Scenario #2 - people will be using their own irc clients and using open proxies = banning mibbit was pointless

So banning of mibbit hasn't actually solved the problem, but like I theorised above, has the potential to funnel revenue to freenode and given the timing of axod's post about revenue, with the banning of mibbit only a day or so after followed by the awfully convenient default webchat installation that freenode put up, it smells a little fishy (even if it's tin foil hat territory, you still have to admit it's bad timing on freenodes part).

EDIT - Scenario #3 - lowtech, just reconnecting off your router to refresh your IP and connect from home = banning mibbit was pointless

Re: Freenode has blocked the Mibbit client permanently.

#35

Post by pygy »

ankhmoop wrote: post #28
davidw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Going http is a nice way to get around firewalls. Sure, I can tunnel through SSH to my server, but that is a bit harder and not everyone has a server to tunnel to. * Part of axod's idea, from what I gather, is simply to provide a nice chat system, that happens to have IRC as a backend. Would you say that people who can't install a proper nntp/smtp/whatever client shouldn't be allowed either? How 'bout twitter, to p…

I wouldn't say shouldn't , but I would say that a slightly higher barrier to entry serves as a good first-pass filter for technically-oriented communities.

Just remove Freenode from the drop down menu and have people to connect manually using the /server and /newserver commands.

You'll get rid of all uneducated trolls. The educated ones may be the worst kind, but that's another matter.

Re: Freenode has blocked the Mibbit client permanently.

#37

Post by jjs »

[deleted] wrote: post #36
jjs wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FUD: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=486482

[deleted]

You called him a "homophobe", and I provided a link that shows evidence to the contrary. A link to an article with a comment by you, so I know you've had the chance to read the comments.

I stand by my accusation of FUD, and add one of trolling, as well.

Re: Freenode has blocked the Mibbit client permanently.

#38

Post by axod »

ankhmoop wrote: post #9
swombat wrote: post #4

As I said in the previous thread before mariorz deleted his own submission: This is completely stupid of Freenode. Shame on them. Axod, how do you know it’s permanent? Have they made a statement?

As someone who has been placed in the position of semi-regularly banning mibbit from freenode OSS project channels due to abusive users, I can't see how this is a bad thing. The quality of user was exceptionally low, and "easy webchat" simply doesn't seem like a strong value proposition for the technical users that frequent the network.

What was the quality of user like for mIRC?

Re: Freenode has blocked the Mibbit client permanently.

#39

Post by sho »

Jem wrote: post #27
sho wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Maybe it's not very nice, but I kind of think that anyone incapable of installing a proper IRC client probably shouldn't be using IRC in the first place. The situation on, say, the ruby-talk mailing list is analogous; whenever you see a really, really stupid question, check out the submitter - chances are it's through one of the web interfaces to the ML. The necessity of installing and configuring an IRC clie…

Elitist cack. I can think of several times I've used mibbit to pop in to #startups (or another channel on another network) because installing an IRC client just isn't possible (lack of admin rights, on someone else's computer, etc).

"Elitist cack"

Not at all. It's like a short, basic aptitude test before you're able to join a recreational sports team, or maybe a driving test. Just shows that you know the ropes at least a bit, you have at least basic competence.

Remove that and people can just bomb in on anyone's conversation in real time, from any browser, no consequences, nothing. Is that really what you want?

I object to your use of the word "elitism". Someone's basic technical competence, and the effort they've put in to do something, is a pretty reliable guide to the quality of their contribution, whatever it might be. When I see someone has a free blog on wordpress.com or what not, I instantly assume they either do not care or do not know how to set up their own system. When I see someone with a hotmail address I assume they do not know better. And on irc, when I see someone using mibbit, I assume they do not know how - or are too lazy - to set up IRC.

If people can't put in this basic effort, why let them in? You can yell "elitism" all you want; I prefer to think of it as "rules of the club". Anyone can join the club, they just have to pass the first, very easy, test. What is wrong with that?

And I think your use case for the service, as described in your anecdote, is likely to be quite atypical. I doubt the majority of Mibbit users just happened to be using it because they were using someone else's computer. You are the exception to the rule.

Re: Freenode has blocked the Mibbit client permanently.

#40

Post by abstractbill »

ankhmoop wrote: post #33
davidw wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "easy webchat" simply doesn't seem like a strong value proposition for the technical users that frequent the network. Which is why they saw to it to create their own web chat...

Doesn't serve as counter argument for web chat providing strong value proposition, just that Freenode leveraged existing open source software to provide an alternative solution that they could directly manage. http://blog.freenode.net/2009/06/new-freenode-webchat-and-wh...

In what way are they making it more secure? Mibbit already implemented the WEBIRC protocol - how does the Freenode client go further than that?
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